Hatin' on airbags

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jatakasawa
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Hatin' on airbags

Post by jatakasawa » Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:58 pm

Silly outfitting question: Why in the hades can't we use mini-cell instead of airbags. Airbags are the only part about canoeing that suck...constantly inflating/deflating due to temperatures...slow leaks...take 'em out or leave 'em in on road trips...etc. Besides being permanent, what would be the downside to foam?
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TNbound
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Re: Hatin' on airbags

Post by TNbound » Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:05 pm

Weight and price primarily. At least the bags in your Ion are nice and small!
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Re: Hatin' on airbags

Post by ian123 » Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:49 pm

foam's been done

composite?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnDvKm3DRSY&feature=plcp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
...

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Re: Hatin' on airbags

Post by jatakasawa » Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:04 pm

I was just cuious...I don't think I'm going to any lengths to avoid using my bags and as long as it is just one leaking, I can keep it in front and keep inflating it (and listen to hear all my kayak buddies joke about how we like to be on our knees etc. etc.) :roll: Usually a skirt comment is enough to shut 'em up.
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Smurfwarrior
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Re: Hatin' on airbags

Post by Smurfwarrior » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:54 pm

Good to see the upgrades on the Bulldog, looking good.

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Re: Hatin' on airbags

Post by woro90 » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:32 pm

How do you get the water out of the chambers if you hit a sharp rock? And how do you get such a boat out of the water in case of hull breach and flooded flotation chamber? One cubic foot of water inside means sixty lbs more to tow to safety. A friend of mine almost lost his homemade tripping tandem to breached flotation chamber - the boat did not sink but he was not able to move it out of the moving water as it was way too heavy with all the water that could not be dumped. I know, Composite Creations' boats are tough, but this possibility is what keeps me inclined towards inflatable buoyancy devices. Airbags are great, they can't take on water as they hold shape only by pressure of the air inside, weigh little, their volume can be altered in order to squeeze some gear, food or beer in your short bathtub-like OC1s, you can easily tell if they leak... Well, they definitely are vulnerable. Foam does not take on water or lose air under water but it is definitely too heavy, although some polyurethane foam is used by many in my country as a last resort flotation for tripping canoes: Nobody likes his boat on the bottom, deep in muddy water, so they spray some polyurethane foam into the very ends of the boat in order to give it some positive buoyancy without sacrificing room for gear.
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Re: Hatin' on airbags

Post by canotrouge » Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:35 pm

Woro90, if you are refereeing to the composite creation boat, it has 2 chambers by tank, one with an opening big enough to put gear, and one with drain plug.... I'm sure it could be a problem if you do crack open a tank and water goes in, but keep in mind that these boat are not creaking boat. That said they are pretty darn tough craft!
If you have a chance to talk to Andy Phillips, the guy behind Composite Creation, do he knows his stuff!

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Re: Hatin' on airbags

Post by woro90 » Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:28 am

I didn't notice it's a playboat, that quite changes the situation. For a playboat it's definitely a great idea. For tripping or creeking I would definitely stick to something inflatable, be it a purpose-built airbag, inner tube or an inflatable lady, just something that will allow the water to escape quickly even in case of damage. Any foam is way too heavy and tanks would not be safe for this purpose.
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Re: Hatin' on airbags

Post by Smurfwarrior » Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:31 am

Woro- these are really tough boats. I've had one and it was just fine on rocks, needed some facelift work, but nothing to wring your hands and worry about. Remember, the company that makes the Bulldog makes float plane floats. Its not a playboat, its a river runner.

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Re: Hatin' on airbags

Post by woro90 » Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:31 am

Hats off to the designer then. It it must be an exceptionally durable composite boat for its weight. I would never use a composite boat in rocky rapids, except some places really worth the repairs.
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Re: Hatin' on airbags

Post by sbroam » Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:43 pm

bags?
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Bob P
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Re: Hatin' on airbags

Post by Bob P » Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:06 pm

SBroam's not that far from reality. In the '70s, some of us (cheapskates...) stuffed our open boats with one-gallon milk jugs.
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Re: Hatin' on airbags

Post by KNeal » Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:46 am

Come on Bob. You didn't mention the propensity for open boaters to shape and shove HUGE blocks of styrofoam into the ends and centers (of tandem canoes) for floatation. 8) Les Bechdel "River Rescue" book has several pics of these boats in there.
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Re: Hatin' on airbags

Post by Bill M » Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:17 am

Ah, styrofoam floatation. You could always tell where you had been from the little white crumbs that followed you.

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Re: Hatin' on airbags

Post by sbroam » Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:14 pm

I removed 2 of those huge blocks of styrofoam from canoes at the local YMCA camp - I wished it had occured to me to make archery targets before I threw the first one away... Wrapped up in some leftover house wrap, the one I kept has made a passable target for the kids.

I use 2 and 3 liter soda bottles as floatation in our smaller decked boats - my "playboat" conversion and the kid sized kayaks.

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