Hi everybody!
It's that time of the year to start thinking about summer destination and planning. Looks like I'm headed for the Lower Salmon second week of August, and have some basic questions regarding flows. Of course, much depends upon snowpack, but do the major drops change character much as flows drop? Only other time we did this, I believe it was at around 6000 CFS in 2009.
Right now we have:
2 Dagger Dimensions
13 foot raft,, and a
wooden dory
Thanks for your thoughts and advice in advance
Carol
Lower Salmon query
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Marc Evans
- C Guru
- Posts: 241
- Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 6:01 pm
- Location: Pullman, Washington
Re: Lower Salmon query
Hi Carol:
We may need to exchange information in the future. My son is currently in school in Arcata and If I drive down that way for a visit I would like to bring a boat along.
As for the lower Salmon, I've run it from a low of 2800cfs in October to maybe 6500cfs in midsummer. Below 4000cfs or so, some of the rapids become slightly more technical, though nothing of any note. At 2800cfs, it was necessary to ship oars on Snowhole, and one of the class II (I think Sluicebox) was maybe a class III due to how narrow it became. Above 4000cfs the rapids remain about the same as at 6500cfs. No major changes. The snowpack in the Salmon drainage is about normal, so you should expect about 5500cfs come mid-August. If there is any other information you might need, just pm me. I'm local to the Salmon - the take-out at Hellar bar is 65 miles from my house.
Enjoy the river. You may see me on it.
Marc
We may need to exchange information in the future. My son is currently in school in Arcata and If I drive down that way for a visit I would like to bring a boat along.
As for the lower Salmon, I've run it from a low of 2800cfs in October to maybe 6500cfs in midsummer. Below 4000cfs or so, some of the rapids become slightly more technical, though nothing of any note. At 2800cfs, it was necessary to ship oars on Snowhole, and one of the class II (I think Sluicebox) was maybe a class III due to how narrow it became. Above 4000cfs the rapids remain about the same as at 6500cfs. No major changes. The snowpack in the Salmon drainage is about normal, so you should expect about 5500cfs come mid-August. If there is any other information you might need, just pm me. I'm local to the Salmon - the take-out at Hellar bar is 65 miles from my house.
Enjoy the river. You may see me on it.
Marc
Re: Lower Salmon query
Marc,
Would love to show you our local rivers!!
Carol
Would love to show you our local rivers!!
Carol
Re: Lower Salmon query
With the snowpack this winter you might be able to pick up a main Salmon or MFS cancellation permit around then.
Kyle
Kyle
-
Marc Evans
- C Guru
- Posts: 241
- Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 6:01 pm
- Location: Pullman, Washington
Re: Lower Salmon query
Carol and Wiggins,
After about the 10th of July there seem to be a fair number of returned permits for the Main Salmon. The bad news is that there are no consequences for the permit holders if they return their permits three days prior to launch. This means that you need to give yourself a window of a couple of days for your trip if you plan on trying to grab a cancelled trip. Of course, you could always plan on a Lower Salmon trip and if you can get a Main Salmon permit, then just change your plans slightly. An even better idea would be to do both - more than 200 miles of river.
As for the Middlefork or the Selway, those permits are, to my knowledge and watchful eye, never cancelled.
Marc
After about the 10th of July there seem to be a fair number of returned permits for the Main Salmon. The bad news is that there are no consequences for the permit holders if they return their permits three days prior to launch. This means that you need to give yourself a window of a couple of days for your trip if you plan on trying to grab a cancelled trip. Of course, you could always plan on a Lower Salmon trip and if you can get a Main Salmon permit, then just change your plans slightly. An even better idea would be to do both - more than 200 miles of river.
As for the Middlefork or the Selway, those permits are, to my knowledge and watchful eye, never cancelled.
Marc
Re: Lower Salmon query
Guys,
As hard as it may be to believe, our group is focusing on the Lower Salmon this summer.
Over the years, we've been able to pick up 2 canceled Middle Fork permits-1994 and in 2007, the flows were below 2 feet both times. And we launched from Boundary Creek both times too. We also have been fortunate enough to draw three permits for the Main in the last 10 years. So I guess you could kind of say "been there, done that"!
Really, what it all boils down to is we have one couple in a dory, and I don't think it would do well in mid August flows on either the Middle Fork Or Main. But what may be even more depressing, is that we are all hovering around the big "60", and not really in the mood for something as technically demanding as the permitted Salmons are.
Rivers left on my wish list are North Fork of the John Day, and doing the Owyhee again, both late spring trips that probably won't happen until I retire.
Aches and pains permitting, I plan on having fun this summer!
Carol
So reflecting back to the Middle Fork trip of 1994 and mentally comparing it to the trip in 2007, flows similar. Despite the fact that we were 19 years younger in 1994, I think the Middle Fork was easier than it is now. Particularly Pistol. In 1994, basically remember reclining back with my feet up on the airbags and floating through, sure wasn't like that six years ago.
Again, thanks for your thoughts and advice
Trip report on Middle Fork of the Salmon August 2007
Two of our best friends turned 50 this summer, so what better way to celebrate than a trip down the Middle Fork of the Salmon , or so we hoped. In January, we we all enter the lottery for the Rogue River, the Main Salmon, and Middle Fork of the Salmon with plan B, the unpermitted lower section of the Salmon. Unfortunately, no one was successful in winning a permit on any of the three rivers, but as summer progressed the odds of picking up a canceled permit for either of the Salmon Rivers came greater due to low flows. One of our birthday boys was able to pick up a canceled permit for the Middle Fork, with a launch date of August 5. Now we started the game of watching the river gauge drop. Above 1.8 feet we weren't overly concerned, as two years ago, Dave and I had done a commercial trip (1.9 feet) with another couple and their tandem canoe, where we had to deadhead in with the outfitters rafts and sweep boat, and us in our canoes the day before our official launch date . This resulted in doing the first 25 miles in one day which went smoothly, and to our benefit, we didn't have to carry our gear in the canoe with us. Note: if you choose to do a commercial trip, and bring your own canoe, you're allowed to deadhead in with the outfitters boats if it's a tandem as it will not fit on the airplanes flying into Indian Creek. We went this route in 1994 (FS did make us get a permit thou!) and in 2005-no permit required.
When the gauge dropped down to 1.75 feet, I made a few phone calls to see what we might be getting ourselves into launching from Boundary Creek with the raft. The general consensus was that if we packed light, we shouldn't have too many problems. Just make sure we scouted Sulfur Springs, The Chutes, and definitely the Lake Creek Rapid. Our next concerns were the fires that were happening in the area, but as of Friday the 3rd, the road to Boundary Creek was still open, but when we stopped at the Lowman Ranger Station on Saturday, we discovered that the Main Salmon had just been closed due to fires, and we were also fortunate enough to pick up the new edition of the river guide to in the Middle Fork of the Salmon. At least we thought we were fortunate, but as we shortly discovered after leaving Boundary Creek , the new map is minus the topo lines, which we found incredibly frustrating. The old map, with topo lines, had been left in the car.
We launched from Boundary Creek, 1.66 feet, on Sunday, August 5 with a 14 foot oar frame raft with Mike and Bryce, Damien in the inflatable kayak, Dave B. in the solo canoe, our tandem canoe, and a total of six people. There were also two other commercial groups deadheading their gear in that day, which I took for a good sign.
The canoes ended up caring all their own gear, with the raft caring community gear, food, plus their personal gear. Dave and I in the tandem canoe, swam about a mile below the put in after hitting a rock , leaning to aggressively and rolling right on over. We quickly learned to let the raft go first, so that the inflatable and the canoes could assist in getting him free, if needed. The raft had a much more difficult time than what we had anticipated, and we only made it to Trail Flat Camp the first night, at mile 6.9. This is a wonderful camp,, as it comes with its own hot spring to soak tired bodies in. The alarm went off at 6 a.m., and we were on the river by nine. At the Chutes, we were able to watch a couple commercial rafts, empty, go through, and decided to line our raft down the first portion of the drop. Dave and I portaged the far right channel of The Chutes, Dave B. in the solo canoe, ran it but swam at the bottom. Later that morning, Dave B. pinned his canoe, he called it a vertical pin, which require running a rope to shore, but not having to utilize a z-drag to get it off. But unfortunately in the process, his 50 foot throw rope morphed into two 25 foot throw ropes! After another long day of dealing with rafts stuck on rocks, we called it a day at Big Snag Camp, mile 19.1. That evening for dinner, I made our birthday boy his favorite dinner, sausage spinach pie with a good Cabernet and Oreo cookies for dessert. Well, maybe the Oreo cookies weren't his favorite, but that's what he got. Next morning, we had a hot breakfast, Damien's idea, blueberry pancakes and bacon to get us off in the right mood. Shortly thereafter we arrived at the Lake Creek Rapid. After walking the length of the entire drop, we decided that we would line the raft down the top past the tall Douglas fir, and Mike felt confident about negotiating the rest of the drop. To be safe, though, his youngest son, Bryce, stayed onshore, Damien, his oldest son, and the two Dave's set up safety, just above the bottom right turn. At the last moment Mike decided to tie off the end of his throw rope on his raft. He negotiated the four smaller trees in the river, and then popped an oar and while retrieving the spare, the other oar popped out. He then picked up his throw rope, and as he launched it to shore, lost his balance falling into the cockpit, but the fellas onshore caught the rope and were able to belay it around a tree to swing him around the corner. The two popped oars were easily retrieved in the pool below by Damien. While he was doing that, the canoes lined the upper third of the drop on the right, then ferried across to the left side. At this point, we noticed that there was teal plastic from somebody else's adventure who had also come to the same conclusion about lining the drop. Below the root wad halfway down, we ferried back across to river right and continued on down. During this whole adventure, we provided quite the entertainment for two backpackers watching us. We finally made it to Indian Creek at noon, checked in with the ranger who was also kind enough to take our excess charcoal and lighter fluid, picked up our permit tags, ate lunch and back on the river by 1:30 p.m.. I had hoped for doing the first 25 miles in a day and a half, but it took us 21/2 days. This meant that for the rest of the trip we were looking at an average of 17 mile days. The ranger felt the river conditions would improve considerably once we got below Marble Creek at mile 31.6.
Our third night was spent at Sunflower Flat Camp and Hot Spring at mile 32.6. We arrived about 4 p.m. that afternoon, finding a commercial group enjoying the facilities. It was somewhat awkward trying to get our camp set up as this is considered a small camp with a capacity of 10 people, and the commercial group stayed until about 5 p.m.. The next morning, I hit the snooze button on the alarm twice, so I didn't wake people until 6:30 a.m., we had 19.2 miles ahead of us today.
We had a nice day today, unfortunately because of the miles we had to do, we weren't able to check out Whitey Cox or Loon Creek Hot Springs. The fourth night, Wednesday, we were at Cave Camp, mile 51.8,, across from Hospital Bar, Hot Spring. Again, a really nice camp spot, and we all slept out under the stars. Up again at 6 a.m., as we were looking at a 17 mile day with several large drops ahead of us. The one I'm really worried about is Haystack-Bernard Rapid. Two years ago, this had a rather shallow rocky entrance to it, and that was with a third of a foot more water too. First was the Tappan Fall's series though. For Mike in the raft, it was a piece of cake. The canoes quickly decided to portage Tappan Falls, with Damien's help it went quickly. Warned Mike that below the Flying B, he would see a large logjam pile on river left at the top of a sharp right hand bend, and that was where we need to scout Haystack-Bernard from. Unfortunately , the logjam was no longer there, and about a third of the way it down the drop Mike got hung up pretty good on a rock. Out came the ropes and with a little rocking and rolling, we were able to work him free. Fortunately, our next camp, Short Creek was just below the drop. Plenty of sand, but no shade. Shortly after setting up camp, we noticed a billowing column of smoke erupt from behind the ridge line below and to our right. A hot spot had blown up. A couple of hours later, the smoke column was gone , but then started raining ash. We set up a tarp over the cooking area, Dave and I decided to set up our tent, but the others decided to sleep under the stars again. About 4 a.m. we had a five minute downpour, and another one of about 6 a.m. as a wake-up call.
Today, Thursday, we have 16.1 miles ahead of us. We caught up with another private group scouting Waterfall Creek Rapids, consisting of a raft and three IK's who had had their own set of adventures. They had flown into Indian Creek, but because of the smoke issues , their plane dropped them off a day later than scheduled. And unfortunately on day one, they broke two different oars, but fortunately had brought two spares. We played leapfrog with them for the rest of the day. At Elk Bar Camp we encountered a commercial group that had flipped a gear boat up river, and had sleeping bags decorating the landscape in hopes that they would dry quickly. After lunch, another commercial group passed us, with what had to be the most entertaining sight of the entire trip. An oar frame with mom sitting in the middle, reading to herself the newest Harry Potter book carefully holding it up so it wouldn't get splashed, her two children sitting on either side, and the guide with a bemused expression on his face.
Our last night, Lightning Strike Camp, at mile 85. Another beautiful sandy spot with shade, and wind. I warned the guys that I was going to set the alarm for 5:30 a.m. the next morning, and they all hoped that meant a hot breakfast of pancakes and bacon again. Wishful thinking, especially if we want to get to the takeout by noontime. Friday, 11.9 miles today. Everybody got up in a good mood, and we were on the river a little after 8 a.m., and we weren't the only ones with an early start. Today the river corridor seemed to be getting more crowded with all the different groups, but was actually beneficial for us, as the other guides gave as good advice about running several drops so we didn't have to scout. Thank you! We got to Stoddard Bar at noontime with only one commercial group ahead of us. De-rigging went rather smoothly, and we were loaded up by 1:30 p.m.. Unfortunately, I think, we upset the routines of the different commercial groups unloading their customers, but oh well. I had no desire to run Cramer Rapid in the canoes as two years ago it really looked nasty. The milkshakes in Shoup are awesome.
Looking back on the trip, Mike and I did not enjoy the first three days at all, the other three had a blast . Overall, it was a wonderful private trip, but a lot more work than private trips on the Main at this low flow. If I were to do it again, I would seriously look into flying everything in to Indian Creek. Dave says he would just fly in the raft. If we had packed lighter, would it make a difference? It's hard to say, short of going backpack style, as we considerably reduced weight as it was, no raft table or bulk propane tank, for starters. Being the only female on a trip also has its drawbacks, although I didn't do dishes! I do think that the collective IQ of an almost all-male group has a tendency to deteriorate over time. Ideally, the weather could have been a bit warmer, as it was, I lived in a dry suit for seven days (my preference to a wet suit).
So for those who follow, all that red was from our Dimension, and the teal from David B.'s Genesis.
We will be back...................
PS
Middle Fork was closed down due to fires on August 15. My understanding is that smoke became a real issue around August 11 on the river corridor, and fire jumped the river around Loon Creek.
When we got home, I also heard of several bear incidences. We offloaded our cooler every night, put a bowl of ammonia on it, then covered it all with a tarp. Either the ammonia worked, where we were very lucky. I talked to Les Bechtel from Canyons Inc. after we got back, and he had deadheaded in a canoe on August 12th, and they had a visitor at night, who ate all of their food and destroyed one of the dry bags. I also read another report of a bear rummaging through a open dry box on a raft while somebody was on the raft working on the cooler. Both of these incidences occurred about Indian Creek.
One thing I did learn from this trip though, if we wanted, we could do this as a self-contained trip backpack style. It's something to think about if we can't lineup a raft sometime.
As hard as it may be to believe, our group is focusing on the Lower Salmon this summer.
Over the years, we've been able to pick up 2 canceled Middle Fork permits-1994 and in 2007, the flows were below 2 feet both times. And we launched from Boundary Creek both times too. We also have been fortunate enough to draw three permits for the Main in the last 10 years. So I guess you could kind of say "been there, done that"!
Really, what it all boils down to is we have one couple in a dory, and I don't think it would do well in mid August flows on either the Middle Fork Or Main. But what may be even more depressing, is that we are all hovering around the big "60", and not really in the mood for something as technically demanding as the permitted Salmons are.
Rivers left on my wish list are North Fork of the John Day, and doing the Owyhee again, both late spring trips that probably won't happen until I retire.
Aches and pains permitting, I plan on having fun this summer!
Carol
So reflecting back to the Middle Fork trip of 1994 and mentally comparing it to the trip in 2007, flows similar. Despite the fact that we were 19 years younger in 1994, I think the Middle Fork was easier than it is now. Particularly Pistol. In 1994, basically remember reclining back with my feet up on the airbags and floating through, sure wasn't like that six years ago.
Again, thanks for your thoughts and advice
Trip report on Middle Fork of the Salmon August 2007
Two of our best friends turned 50 this summer, so what better way to celebrate than a trip down the Middle Fork of the Salmon , or so we hoped. In January, we we all enter the lottery for the Rogue River, the Main Salmon, and Middle Fork of the Salmon with plan B, the unpermitted lower section of the Salmon. Unfortunately, no one was successful in winning a permit on any of the three rivers, but as summer progressed the odds of picking up a canceled permit for either of the Salmon Rivers came greater due to low flows. One of our birthday boys was able to pick up a canceled permit for the Middle Fork, with a launch date of August 5. Now we started the game of watching the river gauge drop. Above 1.8 feet we weren't overly concerned, as two years ago, Dave and I had done a commercial trip (1.9 feet) with another couple and their tandem canoe, where we had to deadhead in with the outfitters rafts and sweep boat, and us in our canoes the day before our official launch date . This resulted in doing the first 25 miles in one day which went smoothly, and to our benefit, we didn't have to carry our gear in the canoe with us. Note: if you choose to do a commercial trip, and bring your own canoe, you're allowed to deadhead in with the outfitters boats if it's a tandem as it will not fit on the airplanes flying into Indian Creek. We went this route in 1994 (FS did make us get a permit thou!) and in 2005-no permit required.
When the gauge dropped down to 1.75 feet, I made a few phone calls to see what we might be getting ourselves into launching from Boundary Creek with the raft. The general consensus was that if we packed light, we shouldn't have too many problems. Just make sure we scouted Sulfur Springs, The Chutes, and definitely the Lake Creek Rapid. Our next concerns were the fires that were happening in the area, but as of Friday the 3rd, the road to Boundary Creek was still open, but when we stopped at the Lowman Ranger Station on Saturday, we discovered that the Main Salmon had just been closed due to fires, and we were also fortunate enough to pick up the new edition of the river guide to in the Middle Fork of the Salmon. At least we thought we were fortunate, but as we shortly discovered after leaving Boundary Creek , the new map is minus the topo lines, which we found incredibly frustrating. The old map, with topo lines, had been left in the car.
We launched from Boundary Creek, 1.66 feet, on Sunday, August 5 with a 14 foot oar frame raft with Mike and Bryce, Damien in the inflatable kayak, Dave B. in the solo canoe, our tandem canoe, and a total of six people. There were also two other commercial groups deadheading their gear in that day, which I took for a good sign.
The canoes ended up caring all their own gear, with the raft caring community gear, food, plus their personal gear. Dave and I in the tandem canoe, swam about a mile below the put in after hitting a rock , leaning to aggressively and rolling right on over. We quickly learned to let the raft go first, so that the inflatable and the canoes could assist in getting him free, if needed. The raft had a much more difficult time than what we had anticipated, and we only made it to Trail Flat Camp the first night, at mile 6.9. This is a wonderful camp,, as it comes with its own hot spring to soak tired bodies in. The alarm went off at 6 a.m., and we were on the river by nine. At the Chutes, we were able to watch a couple commercial rafts, empty, go through, and decided to line our raft down the first portion of the drop. Dave and I portaged the far right channel of The Chutes, Dave B. in the solo canoe, ran it but swam at the bottom. Later that morning, Dave B. pinned his canoe, he called it a vertical pin, which require running a rope to shore, but not having to utilize a z-drag to get it off. But unfortunately in the process, his 50 foot throw rope morphed into two 25 foot throw ropes! After another long day of dealing with rafts stuck on rocks, we called it a day at Big Snag Camp, mile 19.1. That evening for dinner, I made our birthday boy his favorite dinner, sausage spinach pie with a good Cabernet and Oreo cookies for dessert. Well, maybe the Oreo cookies weren't his favorite, but that's what he got. Next morning, we had a hot breakfast, Damien's idea, blueberry pancakes and bacon to get us off in the right mood. Shortly thereafter we arrived at the Lake Creek Rapid. After walking the length of the entire drop, we decided that we would line the raft down the top past the tall Douglas fir, and Mike felt confident about negotiating the rest of the drop. To be safe, though, his youngest son, Bryce, stayed onshore, Damien, his oldest son, and the two Dave's set up safety, just above the bottom right turn. At the last moment Mike decided to tie off the end of his throw rope on his raft. He negotiated the four smaller trees in the river, and then popped an oar and while retrieving the spare, the other oar popped out. He then picked up his throw rope, and as he launched it to shore, lost his balance falling into the cockpit, but the fellas onshore caught the rope and were able to belay it around a tree to swing him around the corner. The two popped oars were easily retrieved in the pool below by Damien. While he was doing that, the canoes lined the upper third of the drop on the right, then ferried across to the left side. At this point, we noticed that there was teal plastic from somebody else's adventure who had also come to the same conclusion about lining the drop. Below the root wad halfway down, we ferried back across to river right and continued on down. During this whole adventure, we provided quite the entertainment for two backpackers watching us. We finally made it to Indian Creek at noon, checked in with the ranger who was also kind enough to take our excess charcoal and lighter fluid, picked up our permit tags, ate lunch and back on the river by 1:30 p.m.. I had hoped for doing the first 25 miles in a day and a half, but it took us 21/2 days. This meant that for the rest of the trip we were looking at an average of 17 mile days. The ranger felt the river conditions would improve considerably once we got below Marble Creek at mile 31.6.
Our third night was spent at Sunflower Flat Camp and Hot Spring at mile 32.6. We arrived about 4 p.m. that afternoon, finding a commercial group enjoying the facilities. It was somewhat awkward trying to get our camp set up as this is considered a small camp with a capacity of 10 people, and the commercial group stayed until about 5 p.m.. The next morning, I hit the snooze button on the alarm twice, so I didn't wake people until 6:30 a.m., we had 19.2 miles ahead of us today.
We had a nice day today, unfortunately because of the miles we had to do, we weren't able to check out Whitey Cox or Loon Creek Hot Springs. The fourth night, Wednesday, we were at Cave Camp, mile 51.8,, across from Hospital Bar, Hot Spring. Again, a really nice camp spot, and we all slept out under the stars. Up again at 6 a.m., as we were looking at a 17 mile day with several large drops ahead of us. The one I'm really worried about is Haystack-Bernard Rapid. Two years ago, this had a rather shallow rocky entrance to it, and that was with a third of a foot more water too. First was the Tappan Fall's series though. For Mike in the raft, it was a piece of cake. The canoes quickly decided to portage Tappan Falls, with Damien's help it went quickly. Warned Mike that below the Flying B, he would see a large logjam pile on river left at the top of a sharp right hand bend, and that was where we need to scout Haystack-Bernard from. Unfortunately , the logjam was no longer there, and about a third of the way it down the drop Mike got hung up pretty good on a rock. Out came the ropes and with a little rocking and rolling, we were able to work him free. Fortunately, our next camp, Short Creek was just below the drop. Plenty of sand, but no shade. Shortly after setting up camp, we noticed a billowing column of smoke erupt from behind the ridge line below and to our right. A hot spot had blown up. A couple of hours later, the smoke column was gone , but then started raining ash. We set up a tarp over the cooking area, Dave and I decided to set up our tent, but the others decided to sleep under the stars again. About 4 a.m. we had a five minute downpour, and another one of about 6 a.m. as a wake-up call.
Today, Thursday, we have 16.1 miles ahead of us. We caught up with another private group scouting Waterfall Creek Rapids, consisting of a raft and three IK's who had had their own set of adventures. They had flown into Indian Creek, but because of the smoke issues , their plane dropped them off a day later than scheduled. And unfortunately on day one, they broke two different oars, but fortunately had brought two spares. We played leapfrog with them for the rest of the day. At Elk Bar Camp we encountered a commercial group that had flipped a gear boat up river, and had sleeping bags decorating the landscape in hopes that they would dry quickly. After lunch, another commercial group passed us, with what had to be the most entertaining sight of the entire trip. An oar frame with mom sitting in the middle, reading to herself the newest Harry Potter book carefully holding it up so it wouldn't get splashed, her two children sitting on either side, and the guide with a bemused expression on his face.
Our last night, Lightning Strike Camp, at mile 85. Another beautiful sandy spot with shade, and wind. I warned the guys that I was going to set the alarm for 5:30 a.m. the next morning, and they all hoped that meant a hot breakfast of pancakes and bacon again. Wishful thinking, especially if we want to get to the takeout by noontime. Friday, 11.9 miles today. Everybody got up in a good mood, and we were on the river a little after 8 a.m., and we weren't the only ones with an early start. Today the river corridor seemed to be getting more crowded with all the different groups, but was actually beneficial for us, as the other guides gave as good advice about running several drops so we didn't have to scout. Thank you! We got to Stoddard Bar at noontime with only one commercial group ahead of us. De-rigging went rather smoothly, and we were loaded up by 1:30 p.m.. Unfortunately, I think, we upset the routines of the different commercial groups unloading their customers, but oh well. I had no desire to run Cramer Rapid in the canoes as two years ago it really looked nasty. The milkshakes in Shoup are awesome.
Looking back on the trip, Mike and I did not enjoy the first three days at all, the other three had a blast . Overall, it was a wonderful private trip, but a lot more work than private trips on the Main at this low flow. If I were to do it again, I would seriously look into flying everything in to Indian Creek. Dave says he would just fly in the raft. If we had packed lighter, would it make a difference? It's hard to say, short of going backpack style, as we considerably reduced weight as it was, no raft table or bulk propane tank, for starters. Being the only female on a trip also has its drawbacks, although I didn't do dishes! I do think that the collective IQ of an almost all-male group has a tendency to deteriorate over time. Ideally, the weather could have been a bit warmer, as it was, I lived in a dry suit for seven days (my preference to a wet suit).
So for those who follow, all that red was from our Dimension, and the teal from David B.'s Genesis.
We will be back...................
PS
Middle Fork was closed down due to fires on August 15. My understanding is that smoke became a real issue around August 11 on the river corridor, and fire jumped the river around Loon Creek.
When we got home, I also heard of several bear incidences. We offloaded our cooler every night, put a bowl of ammonia on it, then covered it all with a tarp. Either the ammonia worked, where we were very lucky. I talked to Les Bechtel from Canyons Inc. after we got back, and he had deadheaded in a canoe on August 12th, and they had a visitor at night, who ate all of their food and destroyed one of the dry bags. I also read another report of a bear rummaging through a open dry box on a raft while somebody was on the raft working on the cooler. Both of these incidences occurred about Indian Creek.
One thing I did learn from this trip though, if we wanted, we could do this as a self-contained trip backpack style. It's something to think about if we can't lineup a raft sometime.
Re: Lower Salmon query
Marc,
After rereading my post on , I think it came across as being snippy. I didn't mean it that way.
Thank you again so much for the information you gave me regarding summertime flows on the Lower Salmon.
The only concerns regarding our group this coming summer, is the dory. When we did this run in 2009, we came across a wooden dory that had come down on a rock and did some damage at Pine Bar Rapids. Unfortunately, a wooden dory doesn't bounce off rocks like a raft does. But from what you had to say, I don't think will have to worry much. I think knowing in advance That Pine Bar Rapids, and China slide may be our problem areas.
Carol
After rereading my post on , I think it came across as being snippy. I didn't mean it that way.
Thank you again so much for the information you gave me regarding summertime flows on the Lower Salmon.
The only concerns regarding our group this coming summer, is the dory. When we did this run in 2009, we came across a wooden dory that had come down on a rock and did some damage at Pine Bar Rapids. Unfortunately, a wooden dory doesn't bounce off rocks like a raft does. But from what you had to say, I don't think will have to worry much. I think knowing in advance That Pine Bar Rapids, and China slide may be our problem areas.
Carol
-
Marc Evans
- C Guru
- Posts: 241
- Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 6:01 pm
- Location: Pullman, Washington
Re: Lower Salmon query
Carol,
I never thought of your response as snippy. I was simply happy to talk about the area rivers and hear what you had to say.
I can definitely understand why you wouldn't want to take dory down the Middlefork - it might end up splinters in the first day. The Main Salmon wouldn't be quite as tough, but still, there are some big rapids with some big rocks. My only reason for letting you know about picking up returned permits was to let you know that it is always possible to get on the Main Salmon after about July 10, due to the number of returned permits.
As for Pine Bar rapid, last summer I ran the far left side slot in my SFly, while my daughter took the 16 cataraft down the right side rock garden. Both would have been fine for a raft or dory. China rapid is always, and probably only, runnable on the far left. I think the dory should be just fine. I will admit that I don't recall ever seeing a dory running the lower Salmon, but I'm sure it is done. Enjoy the river!
Marc
I never thought of your response as snippy. I was simply happy to talk about the area rivers and hear what you had to say.
I can definitely understand why you wouldn't want to take dory down the Middlefork - it might end up splinters in the first day. The Main Salmon wouldn't be quite as tough, but still, there are some big rapids with some big rocks. My only reason for letting you know about picking up returned permits was to let you know that it is always possible to get on the Main Salmon after about July 10, due to the number of returned permits.
As for Pine Bar rapid, last summer I ran the far left side slot in my SFly, while my daughter took the 16 cataraft down the right side rock garden. Both would have been fine for a raft or dory. China rapid is always, and probably only, runnable on the far left. I think the dory should be just fine. I will admit that I don't recall ever seeing a dory running the lower Salmon, but I'm sure it is done. Enjoy the river!
Marc