C-Forum

Okay. After 12 miles of very very wet class II/III yesterday, I'm ready to get rid of my Viper 11. (I'm 225 lbs. w/o gear) I paddled my buddies X part of the way and liked it. He has wood trim and swears there is more flair with wood than vinyl. The Mad River site says the Outrage is good for people up to 190, so I'm thinking X. I'm also 64 and ready to not have a boat that wants so much attention when I'm going down river. I know there is no difference in the mold between wood and vinyl, so can the trim make any diff?

Any thoughts?

As always, thanks for your input.

MarkT

On the old MR boats they steam bent the boats gunnels at the ends and were wider than the vinyl capped versions (cheaper to use the existing caps thus the narrowed ends)...and my understanding and what I've seen is the new MR boats with wood trim don't steam bend the flare into the ends so end up pretty much like the vinyl versions.

The current Outrages don't have the same shape as the old ones. However, I really question how much drier that bending of the gunnels really made the boats. That being said, for the differential in cost I would still go wood for the light weight and good looks. I'm 220 and paddle the std Outrage. I don't find any issues at my size

Thanks much to both of you for your comments. Much appriciated.

I can confirm that older Outrages with wood gunwales had dramatically more flare than their vinyl-gunwaled cousins.

I'm 220, haven't liked many boats that I think are too small for me, but have no problem with how the Outrage floats a bigger guy. They should retract the use of 190lbs as an upper limit.

Pat.

I have a current style wood gunwaled Outrage, and I have paddled vinyl- as well as an old steam bent gunwaled one once.
If memory serves me correctly, then the old style one was a bit dryer, it seemed to have , in addition to more volume and flare in the ends a tad more rocker as well.
The main differences between the wood and vinyl gunwaled ones are 2 fold, stiffness (wood seems to add some of that) and weight, Mad river quoted the weight as 52lbs, same for vinyl as wood, which is not the case.
My boat weight fully fitted with saddle, thigh straps and air bags a measly 42 lbs. Granted, I removed the 2 wooden deck plates, too, they weighed almost 2 lbs each and did, except make the ends look prettier, absolutely nothing.
I would also not ordering the factory outfitting, I personally find the Mad River outfitting neither overly comfortable nor supportive. Get either a double strap or a bulkhead outfitting.

TGG!

Mark, I would definitely try an Outrage before going for the X...there's a big difference in how they paddle perform! The X is a battleship compared to the Outrage

I second the Gonzo's comments on weight. My Mike Yee outfitted wood gunnel Outrage sans deck plates is lighter than my buddies bulkhead outfitted vinyl gunnel Zephyr

I'm really impressed with the knowledge/experience y'all have. Thanks very much. I'm now planning to try a standard Outrage before looking more at the X...and hope to find one used with wood trim.

Thanks again.

Mark

Hi

There is a tremendous difference between the original Outrage as designed by the original Mad River Canoe company and the vinyl gunnel versions. The main difference is the wood trimmed boats typically have an extra thwart in about two feet from both ends that push the sides out in a rectangular shape and create a lot more flare in the ends. The vinyl trimmed boats typically have two thwarts amidships that give it a more diamond, versus box, shape. This is not a function of new versus old Outrages however; rather it is wood versus vinyl. The new wood trimmed boats have the rectangular, box-shape with the flared ends for greater dryness. However I would not buy a new Outrage because of the fragility of the new royalex. Better to find a used one.

Best of luck!

I would tend to disagree a bit with canoeman here about the shape of the newer (2008) wood gunwaled Outrages, their shape is definitely not boxy and rectangular any more:




Unless of course they changed back in the mean time.

TGG!

Yeah the wood Outrages I'm thinking of are fuller than that in the ends.

What, nobody has picture of all the Outrage variations boofing a waterfall side-by-side??

P.

the great gonzo wrote:I would tend to disagree a bit with canoeman here about the shape of the newer (2008) wood gunwaled Outrages, their shape is definitely not boxy and rectangular any more:




Unless of course they changed back in the mean time.

TGG!

They must have changed them again. That boat does not have the two end thwarts like the 2008 model I had. Nice photo. What drop is that?

That is drop where Falls Creek drops into the Clearwater river in Wells Grey Provincial Park in BC.
canoeman61, what is the length and position of your thwarts? Might be tempted to give en a try.

TGG!

After seeing my vinyl version next to an old wood version, I blew out the bow of mine to widen it up and make it drier. So mine is now fat in the front and still skinny in the stern.

From a rough measurement on the beach, the flared, wooden Outrages were as wide as the length of my paddle blade, at that same length in from the bow. So I pushed in a new thwart about that wide at about that place. Something like that. Obviously I had to take off the old end-cap and a fashion a new deck plate too. I liked the boat better with the fatter bow, maybe because I'm a fatter guy.

P.