C-Forum

I'm interested in opinions and experiences about the use of the Vertige X as a solo boat for a larger (290 lb.) paddler. I tip the scales about there and would like to hear what folks think about using the boat as my primary solo. I would expect to use the boat in WW up to class III-IV.

I currently paddle a Mohawk Probe 12, which I find to be a bit slow. I'd like to get something that accelerates better.

I found one old post on the board from 2009 that makes a passing negative reference, but would like to hear more.

Comments would be welcome.

For class III-IV I'd say the more nimble the better, so go smaller if you can. If you're also really tall maybe you won't find the Vertige X (or Caption or Probe 14) too much boat, but if you could get away in a Vertige or Outrage X, or older big solos like H2Pro or Genesis, you might want to look at some in that 13' range.

There's nothing wrong with the Vertige X solo, but it is what it is - a 14' tandem is a lot of boat for catching class IV eddies.

Pat.

The past comment could have come from me. I had a Vertige X I used as a WW tripping boat for a few years. I didn't seek out this boat, I bought it spur of the moment ($800 brand new, outfitted solo with wood trim and bags - who could pass that up!). At the time I weighed around 210 and probably carried close to 80 lbs with me on trips. The only thing positive about the boat was that it was very dry. Otherwise it was slow and unresponsive. I would follow Pat's suggestion and look elsewhere for something that accelerates better.

I've thought of getting a Vertige X as a tandem, because our MR Synergy isn't dry enough in heavier ww. But the Synergy, I think, is narrower, and makes a better solo cruiser.

There's class 4, and there's class 4. If 5 Falls on the Chattooga is still considered to have some class 4, then catching eddies isn't really an issue, except for the staging eddy in Jawbone. I've seen people run all of 5 Falls easily in OT Trippers. Solo in a Vertige X would be no sweat. In fact, hitting eddies unnecessarily in 5 Falls has gotten a few people killed.

But I know there are some steep, complex, creeky class 4s where hitting successive eddies is necessary. A Vertige X isn't going to do that.

Some of us who have big feet, or big bodies, or big heads, may have to accept the fact that the boat market does not fully meet our needs. Either we have a big boat that lacks agility, or a smaller boat that is sort of agile, but wallows a bit. I think some "X" boats like the Outrage X (which I have paddled) are still not going to carry really big people.

My Millbrook Big Boy would carry 290 just fine, but it's "glass" and designed for the Grand Canyon (lotsa big waves, few rock contacts), not so much for steep creeks. I've seen heavy guys happy in the Millbrook Defiant (formerly the Fat Boy) and Kaz could lay one up with an extra layer of S-glass outside, and maybe more Kevlar inside. My Big Boy is now the Edsel, because the mold ain't workin' and Kaz ain't usin' it. I could post pictures, though, for the curious.

Back when Colin Moneypenny was a bigger fellow, he paddled a Vertige X solo. I've paddled stuff like the New River Gorge and Lower Gauley beside Colin in his Vertige X. He did fine.

Yeah, ncdavid, that's what I mean. A larger boat may even be an advantage in some ways on big, heavy water. Doesn't even necessarily require a big paddler. I remember a small guy who paddled an Old Town Tripper on all sorts of class 3-4, and he didn't have trouble putting the Tripper where it needed to go. His only problem was when the wind got high.....

I'm 170 lbs., owned a Vertige-X and paddled it a lot. It was my favorite canoe. The only reason that I sold it was that I'm in my mid 70s and the boat was getting too heavy to lift. I've used it on lots of creeks and small rivers as well as the Upper Yough, Gauley and the Grand Canyon. What I really liked about it is that it had slightly softer chines than the Caption but still had a flat bottom. It ended up front surfing just as well as the Caption while being even more stable in big water.

I once paddled it down a local creek that was in flood (before pumps) where there was an eddy only every half mile or so. The holes were huge and not all avoidable so I had to paddle a lot of it swamped. I found that the boat was just as stable as a Whitesell when swamped and I ran the entire flooded creek upright.

If you haven't figured it out yet, I would think that the Vertige-X would be a great boat for you.

A Vertige X would probably work just fine, but there are other, shorter boats that would also work. I am six-five and 230 to 250ish (depending on how many calories I'm bothering to count) and my old Outrage X never had any issued carting me around, even with a lot of gear in the boat when I was guiding. Its also a lot more fun to paddle solo than any 14 foot boat I've ever been in. As suggested above, either a H2PRO (if you can find one) or a Dagger Genesis would take your weight with no issues at all. The Genesis, in particular, will handle a totally ridiculous about of weight. I've run class III in it with me and seventy pounds of crap...no problems...but it is a tank even when its empty. People will throw rocks at me for this, but if we're talking about 13 foot boats that can handle some weight and are still fun to paddle I'd look for an Encore if you can find one that hasn't been beaten to death.

Good luck, and now I'm going to go and hide behind my truck while everyone is looking for rocks.

Sounds like an endorsement for the Outrage X. Those can be found, but I heard they are hard to roll. Anyone care to comment on their roll-ability?

Not that I have a good roll, but reliable in the pool.... If that counts.... I use to have an Outrage X, and wasn't able to roll it, and then I foamed the sides and shebang, I was able to roll it!! So foaming the inside walls of a boat might help with your roll.
I'm 6'2" and 230lbs. and that boat float me well. I now paddle a Spark and a Shacho, and they float me well to....
cheers

valhallalongboats wrote:A Vertige X would probably work just fine, but there are other, shorter boats that would also work. I am six-five and 230 to 250ish (depending on how many calories I'm bothering to count) and my old Outrage X never had any issued carting me around, even with a lot of gear in the boat when I was guiding. Its also a lot more fun to paddle solo than any 14 foot boat I've ever been in. As suggested above, either a H2PRO (if you can find one) or a Dagger Genesis would take your weight with no issues at all. The Genesis, in particular, will handle a totally ridiculous about of weight. I've run class III in it with me and seventy pounds of crap...no problems...but it is a tank even when its empty. People will throw rocks at me for this, but if we're talking about 13 foot boats that can handle some weight and are still fun to paddle I'd look for an Encore if you can find one that hasn't been beaten to death.

Good luck, and now I'm going to go and hide behind my truck while everyone is looking for rocks.

No rocks. Like the Encore idea. Here's a H2Pro in North Carolina. Not my boat-- http://asheville.craigslist.org/boa/3876629745.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well, speaking as one big guy to another, the Outrage X is probably my favorite longer solo canoe. I never had any trouble rolling it, but I've heard some other folks have some issues with it. Speed/acceleration wise, none of the probes will come close to it. Actually, I believe that as far as 'off the line' speed goes, a Viper 12 won't touch it either. The Viper, of course, will carve much better. I found, as a big guy hauling gear, the Outrage X is a pretty dry boat, much more so than a Viper or a Probe. The major complaint most people have about the Outrage series is the soft chine, which will not grab an eddy like an Ocoee or a Viper. It will turn, you just have to lay it over a bit to get it to do so. Its easier for us big guys to put a hard lean on the boat because we are heavier . Anyways, before I gave up on finding a 'big guy' solo boat and just bought a tandem and converted it to solo, you might give the Outrage X a try. I did, and I have no regrets!

Final note, before I shut up!

I like the H2PRO, especially as a guide boat, as it is predictable and very comfy to paddle for a long time. HOWEVER, it is NOT a fast boat! I only mention this as you said your Probe 12 is 'slow' and that is a reason you are thinking of upgrading. The PRO might be a lil faster than a Probe, but not much. If you want faster, I'd look at an Outrage X or an Encore...and perhaps someone on this forum could comment on the Bell Prodigy X. I spent some time in a standard Prodigy and liked it OK (not as much as my Outrage) but I never paddled the Prodigy X. You might check into what some other big guys thought of that boat.

Cheers!

An other boat to consider is the Wenonah Recon... It is 13ish feet, and supposed to be quite fast, but not really playful... I never paddled one, so I can't say.

I have to agree with valhallalongboats about the speed of the OutrageX, as for turning to catch eddy, I never had a problem... Especially if you do an off side tilt....

Cheers

one more thing to consider is one of Kaz boat, like the Defiant, I would love t try one of them. I'm sure they are really fast, and turn on a dime!!