C-Forum

Alright y'all, I need some help. I just read through the Frankie Hubbard design thread, did a cboats and google search, found some helpful info, but would like a little more.

About me:
5'9" 185lbs
First boat-Ovation
Second boat- Option
Skill-Class IIIish

I have paddled a friend's Viper 11 on the Nantahala. Liked it alot, but it was a much wetter ride than my Ovation. More fun, but wetter. Paddled a Dagger Ocoee on the bottom half of my home river here in MO, the Saint Francis. We switched (same friend,Ocoee for Option) after the harder rapids to get some seat time, not swim time. Had fun, but didn't get enough time to compare the two. I'm sure I would like either one, just wanna hear what y'all have to say.

Would like to hear about dryness, speed, maneuverability and secondary stability. And, any other opinion about the two boats you may have.

Thanks in advance,

Rob

P.S. There is an Ovation about to go up for sale.

I owned a Mohawk Viper 12 shortly after they came out, currently own a Mohawk Viper 11, a Dagger Ocoee, and a Clipper composite Viper 12.

Here are my impressions, for what they are worth:

The Viper 12 is definitely drier than the Viper 11, but the Ocoee (having much higher stems and sheerline) is probably drier than either Viper.

Although I like the Ocoee quite a bit, the Vipers have always felt a bit "quicker" to me. I am quite sure the Viper 12 has better hull speed than the Ocoee. I am not sure about the Viper 11.

The Viper 12 was the first "edgy" OC-1 I owned and I experienced the usual learning curve of tripping over rocks with the chines that many go through with such a boat. This might have influenced my feeling that the Viper 12 felt "edgier" to me than the Ocoee. A friend who paddles a Viper 12 recently paddled my Ocoee and felt the Ocoee felt like the edgier boat, however. But I am pretty confident that the Viper 11 (having a foot shorter edgy portion of the hull) feels less edgy than the Viper 12 and the Ocoee.

If you really prize dryness I would probably go with the Ocoee. For me the Viper 11 feels more nimble and if playfulness is a priority I would go with that and put a pump in it.

I've had both, a viper 11 and an ocoee (Bell though).
A bit of context, I went from a Viper11 to a prelude to an Ocoee and added a L'Edge to it.

Primary stability: the Ocoee feels to me in between the Vipe11 and the Prelude, so less then the Viper11, more then the prelude
Secondary: very good for both
Rolling: both fairly easy, probably the Ocoee a tad easier.
dryness: Ocoee is the dryer, but a lot depends on your lines of course .
Acceleration: Ocoee feels a bit more agile to accelerate
End speed: viper11 felt faster to me, keeps momentum going a bit better too.
Surfing: Ocoee felt easier to surf to me
Agility: definete win for the Ocoee, turns a lot faster
Timings: the Ocoee requires a better timing of tilts and weight shifts due to the hard chines over the full length of the boat. The Viper11 gives you a little wider timewindow (a little).

Overall I personally prefer the Ocoee over the Viper11, because it fits my paddling style better. Generally speaking I think the Viper11 is still one of the best feature-balanced boats on the market, still. The viper11 isn't really excelling in particular features, but it isn't really bad in any either.

Both are excellent designs in the 11foot range, if you like hard chines.

A bit more in depth reviews are on my website
Ocoee: http://www.open-canoe.be/reviews/canoe- ... bell-ocoee
viper11: http://www.open-canoe.be/reviews/canoe- ... oe-viper11

I looked for an Ocoee over a Viper 11 because of dryness. At 220lbs I just found the Viper more wetness than it was worth.

Pat.