C-Forum

Having to get out and empty my boat is also a great excuse to stretch my legs.

No Pumps.

NickParker wrote: "Purists" who were much too full of themselves cried foul, saying Jardine's climbs weren't valid because he wasn't using the same gear they were. Those cries of foul are largely lost to history. Jardine wasn't cheating at all, he was just smart enough to figure out how to get past a roadblock without the need to redefine the game.

Not too sure if this applies here. A pump doesn't make paddling easier or safer. Just makes recovering easier. That being said, I trad climb and look at cams as a nice tool, but would take a bomber nut or hex placement over them any day.

Dave.E wrote: A pump doesn't make paddling easier or safer.

Erroneous!

No Pumps = Who Cares

If you have the energy to get out and dump continuously then good for you. The motivation for pumps in many of the newer tiny canoes is the total lack of space to bail. In days of old EVERY canoeist in WW had a bailer and could throw water out of his or her boat. Enter foam and airbags that make this impossible, the trade off being a boat that holds less water and can be paddled full of water. If we are going to say no pumps are we also going to restrict airbag size, require minimum water carrying capacity, ban bailers (in boats that can use them) limit the size of paddle blades or require that all canoeists wear orange shorts?

As to it being a safety thing, just Saturday on the UY I saw a situation where an electric pump likely prevented a swim down the right side of Charlies Choice. Sometimes things don't go well and the dry line gets blown, a pump makes a nice plan B.

Ultimately you can make your own call on pumps but I like mine and that's all I care about.

It's kind of like auto vs. manual transmission.

Personally, I prefer a stick shift One of my vehicles I have to double-clutch. When pressed I've been able to shift without clutching without destroying the transmission either.

BUT, I can also see why some folks like any auto transmission.

Use what best suits you, and realize that there is not one "best" for everyone.

gumpy wrote:Nobody is scoring first descents because they use pumps. Those guys don't need pumps. Pumps are only useful for old men. Anyone else is just lazy. Learn to run clean lines. Learn to boof. Progress.

The point of my analogy was that when climbers started using little mechanisms people cried foul, lazy, etc, because it made one part of the game easier. However, since their use didn't change the "rules" or goals of the game, it was the badmouthing that was eventually ignored, while the innovation was accepted.

I see the exact same thing going on here. Paddlers are now using little mechanisms, and people are crying foul, lazy, etc, because it makes one part of the game easier. But the use of the gizmos does not change the "rules" or goals of the game, so I think the criticisms will (rightfully) fade into obscurity.

There will be some self declared purists who hang on to their criticism -- all the while accepting other innovations which make other parts of the game easier. Call that what you will, but the dictionary defines it as hypocrisy.

Since when do we discuss climbing here? Nick, do you climb with a parachute? Or boat with a skirt?

No parachutes here, but there's at least one person doing some huge and difficult solo climbs with a parachute as his only protection. No skirts or pumps in my arsenal either, but I don't have any problem with them, or with yaks, C1's, bailers, painters, short boats, long boats, inflatables, birch bark, or dugout tree trunks. It's all good.

Hardest creek I've ever paddled (maybe a IV, maybe a V) I swam, and ended up hanging from a tree with one arm and holding my boat with the other hand, wondering how long I was going to be able to keep my boat from going down the river with 200 pounds of water in it. When people finally got close enough to help, they were able to flip the switch and get it emptying.

If I hadn't had a pump I would have been hiking out and possibly lost my boat for good (I later lost my favorite paddle on the same day... Not my best day.)

But I don't have a pump in my Option because it's a lot easier to empty than the Taureau was. So I say...

Pump'em if ya got'em.

Shep

It TOTALLY changes the game.... It changes one the distinguishing characteristics of the sport the same way a skirt or a second blade does. Call a spade a spade. Decked boaters aren't pretending to be something else.

So do airbags

So does plastic / royalex / etc....

For that matter, so does a shorter boat!.......



ADHESIVE!

I remember when you were considered a wimp if you paddled a Royalex boat equiped with flotation and thigh straps. Real paddlers only paddled 17-foot Grumman aluminum canoes without any stinking flotation. Now we're starting over with the pump issue? Let's be real!

No thwarts!

Hey Gnarlz- Print a shirt that says . "only half glarlz,Pumps Rock!. And I bet you sell 10 times as many as your shirts.-M-


.

Cue the video!

pump-n-play or jump-n-dump. some places you can't get out and dump a 15" boat too easily. so i flip the switch. http://youtu.be/kFQG--1kY-s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; i like surfing \side surfing and i would'nt have so much fun dumping the long boat 2 dozen time at the play spots. plus keeping ice cold water out as much as possible aloows me more time on the water. http://youtu.be/8rE23VLwDOw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jim Michaud wrote:I remember when you were considered a wimp if you paddled a Royalex boat equiped with flotation and thigh straps. Real paddlers only paddled 17-foot Grumman aluminum canoes without any stinking flotation. Now we're starting over with the pump issue? Let's be real!

Thumps up!

Jim Michaud wrote:I remember when you were considered a wimp if you paddled a Royalex boat equiped with flotation and thigh straps. Real paddlers only paddled 17-foot Grumman aluminum canoes without any stinking flotation. Now we're starting over with the pump issue? Let's be real!

The cover photo of Will Leverette's book A History of Whitewater Paddling in Western North Carolina shows his grandfather, Frank Bell, running a rapid in an aluminum canoe and not wearing a PFD. After an epic swim at the rapid that now bears his name, Bell decided that he was better off with out a PFD because it allowed him to go deep and escape the hole.

Now that's a purist.

(but even Bell gave up on canvas on wood frame canoes for the more 'durable' aluminum)

That said, I don't have a pump but I don't object to folks that do.