C-Forum

Need a little advice from you guys. Confused on all the choices of boats. I would say I am an advanced beginner? Have an old mohawk tandem Probe 14, nothing wrong with the boat but Big, I go solo and feels like paddeling a battleship. My Exper is to class 3ish, Age 51, weight 168 and beginning to have knees issues. Interested in something light and small that will play a little but will still get me down stream. up to Class 4. Live fairly close to Chattanooga and could try Mohawk, any rec or suggestions.

Try and hook up with folks who have a few different boats. What type of paddling do you see yourself doing? Not class, but river running, creeking, etc.... For your "playing a little" and river running, and creeking for that matter I'd definitely check out (in alphabetical order) the Blackfly Option, Light L'edge, and perhaps the Mohawk Maxim (or the Phiend of it appears soon:) ) .

If you want lighter check out the composite boats, including Millbrook.

The only thing you can do about knee issues is to raise your seat level. I'm 70, and knee discomfort could force me into kayaks.

One important question regarding your knee problems is how high you have to have your seat to be comfortable. I've seen several people buy shorter boats and try to paddle them with 10" high seats. Such a high center of gravity can make a boat like a Prelude or Phantom extremely tippy. Might not be quite as much an issue in a L'edge. One advantage you have is being light.

I imagine you could sit pretty tall on an octane at your weight without difficulty

Bama-you could dance on the gunnels of an Octane 91 at your weight without difficulty. -M-

The Probe 11, Viper 11 and Outrage would all be lighter and more nimble than the Probe 14, but less stable as well. I really noticed the difference in beam going from the Probe 14 to Viper 11. The Viper also has some edge to get used to. The Blackfly boats that I have seen in action (Octane and Option) look like good creekers but are too short for my taste as river runners.

Re: Saddle height

Let's not forget that saddle height is important for a lot of other things, not just center of gravity and the perceived "tippyness" that may or may not come with a higher one.

While it obviously is true for some boats, that they will feel more stable with a lower saddle, a higher shoulder line gives you more room for action with your paddle, and the hip/spine joint should be at a certain point too if you want certain control over aspects pertaining to both primary and secondary stability of your boat (and your possible influence thereof..) and your ability to roll a boat.

Never forget: What is perceived as stable in a boat just means that the lever to tip it is longer or needs more pressure to push it down (Very simplified: wider boat, longer lever..). But it also means that the water has more influence on you - so if there are cross-currents, waves, hydraulics and such, your boat may be more affected by these as well.

Narrower, rounder-bottomed boats tend to be more forgiving (to the point where they seem to be not affected by anything, you or the river do, like the outrageous can be sometimes..).

Now the design of the chine - angle, roundness, edges, double-edge etc.. come into play too, altering some of these values for certain stages of the boats tilt, even forward/backward lean (especially with fish-form/cab forward designed boats like the spark, or slalom c1's..)

The art of the boat designer is balancing these, to create a stable AND forgiving boat.

What I want to say is, even when a certain boat feels "not quite right" to you with a certain saddle height, that may well change when you trim it down or add something to it. So look for low saddle boats when testing, and carry some half-inch foam pieces and duct tape to add saddle height, or similarly shift your spine forward, to see what and how trim changes affect the boat's abilities for your weight and size.

This can be quite drastic - so play around and don't judge one hull before you have tested it in several outfits or trims!

Also, I've heard that If you buy a Spanish Fly off of Esquif, you have to take the saddle out and put it back in the other way, then the trim is right. So don't always believe what some manufacturers say about their boats outfitting, but test for yourself - unless it's Kaz or Jeremy maybe, because they paddle their stuff good and pretty likely know it better than anyone else. ;D