What do you want to see in the future?

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Dave.E
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What do you want to see in the future?

Post by Dave.E » Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:58 am

Hey Cboats,

I am going into my 4th year of mechanical engineering. I will be working with a group of 4 other engineering students and one professor to produce a practical design or process. I want to do something innovative that will help our sport :) Please let me know if there is anything you would like to see developed! I will definitely take anything into consideration.

Here are some ideas that I have so far...

1) Fully adjustable, solid bulkhead
- Kayak outfitting is impressive. I looked in a Dagger Mamba the other day and the ratchet system lets you get contact EVERYWHERE. I already have a working 3D model of a bulkead style saddle that is fully adjustable in a similar way. It would involve a similar ratchet system and have one single hard release point similar to pulling a skirt. Ideally this saddle would only need to be attached to the thwarts, building off of the idea shared by 'Pea Pod' in THIS THREAD.

2) Intensive stress testing of materials
- With Royalex threatened, and me breaking two boats in one season there is definitely a niche for this. I have become tight with a prof with a PHD in materials engineering. My current boss at a co-op job also has a masters degree in materials engineering. They could potentially be solid resources.

3) Spare Air integrated into a PFD
- Red bull has already done this, and someone has a patent on it. However, both the designs that I have seen sucked in my opinion. This would involve a small SCUBA system integrated into a PFD. When dealing with an entrapment, 30 breaths will be much better than none. The idea would be to make this available for $200-$300 so it can be used as a standard piece of equipment.

Dave
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Dave.E
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Re: What do you want to see in the future?

Post by Dave.E » Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:43 am

Oh yea,

Any input would be much appreciated :)
https://vimeo.com/user32086287" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: What do you want to see in the future?

Post by Sir Adam » Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:16 am

A better transferable outfitting solution would be welcome by just about everyone I think... especially if it was cost effective (we're all cheap, remember;) ).

Materials testing is done a lot - but looking at replacements for Royalex could be interesting... as could figuring out new, lighter materials that are "better" (blow molding anyone?).
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Re: What do you want to see in the future?

Post by JFC » Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:46 am

If you were in materials engineering, then I'd ask for a method to lay up plastic laminates into stressed skin panels that would result in a thin, durable and adaptable product and that would lend itself to a robust and relatively simple molding process done by the final manufacturer. :)

Beyond that, more adaptable outfitting would be great. I really like Wendy's (I think) idea of using mini air bags (i.e., water wings) to adjust thigh hook fit. Personally, I'd like to see adjustable ankle blocks and footpegs that also work as toe blocks.

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Re: What do you want to see in the future?

Post by mahyongg » Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:58 am

Ha, working on a wing saddle here.. we can make it a race ;D

- No really, I think it's a good idea, ratchets are pretty much the way to go and easy to use so yeah, I'd obviously like to see that. But it's aso relatively simple!
- "Material" is the hardest question to answer and probably the one that most people don't have the resources to work on. If you can spend time on it, and prepare for failure because it may be hard to find something more suitable than what we already know, I would say go for that! It#s also the most promising in terms of usefullness.. (is that a word?)
- Spare air? Well isn't that lying under my desk here in that drawer.. oh yes it is. So what's the new part, the integration into PFD's? I do have a neoprene vest that goes with it, and fit under my PFD. Of course, IN the PFD would be better, but now you say there's an asshole that patented that integration (which, oh lords of patent law help me, ah no you screwed up long ago, I see, wouldn't really be possibly to put a patent on if anyone had their smarts still together in that department apparently..) - and where's the WW PFD that has gone on the market offering this.. frell patents. Really.
So, given the fact that Spare Air is available, already offers a (neoprene) wearing solution and an integration into a PFD is already patented.. what exactly would you want to develop here?


Go MATERIAL. It's a great thing to do and a BIG benefit for the canoeing/boating community as a whole ;D
And trust me, with everyone seemingly dabbling in the wing saddle department right now, THAT problem should be solved pretty soon ;D

Cheers,

Jan

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Re: What do you want to see in the future?

Post by hazardharry » Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:56 am

more women paddlin' in bikinis! also a wearable bilge pump system... :D
if its a flowin' i'm a goin' if its frozen i'm a dozin'

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Re: What do you want to see in the future?

Post by PAC » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:34 pm

You noted
2) Intensive stress testing of materials
- With Royalex threatened, and me breaking two boats in one season there is definitely a niche for this. I have become tight with a prof with a PHD in materials engineering. My current boss at a co-op job also has a masters degree in materials engineering. They could potentially be solid resources.
Materials is an big issue and will continue to be so for the near future.
However, you note "stress testing" which leads me to think testing will be done only on existing materials.
Reporting on results and perhaps not looking at / for new materials.

But if "new" materials specific to canoe are the focus of a matrix for side by side compares (current, past, new) so as to provide input the manufactures I think that would be a win.... Just my high level thoughts.
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Re: What do you want to see in the future?

Post by Paddle Power » Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:34 pm

Dave, you have asked a good question and made good points.

To help the sport is wonderful. Not sure if you mean paddling or cboating. Your second and third idea would benefit paddling, whereas your first idea would help cboating.

1) Fully adjustable, solid bulkhead -- canoe outfitting
You correctly stated that
Kayak outfitting is impressive.
I think it would be great if canoe rental fleets could offer adjustable canoe outfitting. It would also be great for test paddling a new boat, borrowing a boat, flying and renting, sharing boats between family members (father, mother, daughter, son, etc.), and so on.
A lack of outfitting has really made cboating more difficult and not helped the growth.

Similar for C1 boats, but that is a smaller market.

2) Intensive stress testing of materials -- many boat companies have and will continue to try and test different materials and combinations to advance their boats. If you are thinking material for whitewater boats only, then that narrows the fields a bit. Does a suitable material also needs to meet other non stress testing criteria (wear, weight, formable, cost, availability, and so on)?

3) Spare Air integrated into a PFD -- would this not be of most interest to the more extreme end of the paddling where paddlers are most willing to spend top dollar on a PFD?
Brian
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Re: What do you want to see in the future?

Post by Dave.E » Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:35 pm

Thanks a lot for the replies!

I have a couple ideas for the adjustable saddle. I think it would be fantastic for a number of reasons.
- Sharing boats would be easier
- Can tighten the outfitting for different clothing
- Much easier to adjust than sanding foam

Only down side is that I am having trouble keeping the design simple.


The spare air thing would definitely be a specialty item. Not all people that downhill ski carry avalanche beacons/air bags. Could be looked at similarly.
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the great gonzo
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Re: What do you want to see in the future?

Post by the great gonzo » Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:57 pm

Here is my take on this:

1) adjustable saddle systems have been out there for years! They are called thigh straps, I believe :wink: !
That's what I got now in every one of my boats, and they can be installed in just about any boat.

2) Materials: YES!! With the apparently impending end of RX, this is where it's at. That's what I would put my effort in to.

3) Don't know about the spare air. I see the theoretical value in it, but I am not so sure if they are really there in a practical situation, when the victim will start to panic. This would almost require a system where one has the mouth piece either inserted or right next to the mouth at all times when there is a risk of immersion. And 30 breaths are, especially considering that an entrapped victim will be paniking, a little meager, considering that the normal respiratory rate for an adult is about 12-24 and probably doubles when in a panic.

TGG!
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Re: What do you want to see in the future?

Post by clt_capt » Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:41 am

Materials - That's what we need - Something durable like royalex or tupperware, light as carbon, molds easily with inexpensive tooling (relatively) like Fiberglass.

Both Royalex and tupperware require a very high tooling cost - limiting the number of designs available and the increasing time required to produce a new design.

Fiberglass, Carbon and Kevlar can be hand laid in cheap molds inexpensively, and can be very light, but durability is in question - especially with the kind of creeking people do these days.

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Re: What do you want to see in the future?

Post by thomsonbytheriver » Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:30 am

Materials development gets my vote- specifically if you investigate nanotechnology- perhaps developing a spray on or laminate nano carbon tube surface which can be applied to other materials such as fibreglass. This could have far reaching applications beyond our sport- imagine a virtually frictionless surface on powerboats, ships etc. You could make gelcoat and marine paints obsolete. Your job will likely be to find a way to make it adhere to the hull surface. Picture this on a canoe:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4J6uC22Hwo

I think the air concept will evolve on its own with time. The saddle system sounds great, but not really revolutionary- simply an adaptation of what has already been done in kayaking.

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Re: What do you want to see in the future?

Post by thomsonbytheriver » Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:48 pm

On the other hand, something to save my poor knees wpould be great. I was thinking of a gel like knee pad- breast implant like thingy.

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the great gonzo
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Re: What do you want to see in the future?

Post by the great gonzo » Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:49 pm

Actually, come to think of it, here is a great project for you:
The auto-restuffing throw bag :lol: ! I think every guide would buy one!

TGG!
Everyone must believe in something. I believe I'll go canoeing - Henry David Thoreau

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Re: What do you want to see in the future?

Post by Mikey B » Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:11 pm

You can get silicone sheets in 1/2" thickness...pretty heavy though, but probably not adding too much weight for knee pads. I've thought about it as we have some from what we do in Wheelchair seating :)...we also have some interesting honeycomb material that I've been meaning to test out.
Hmmm

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