C-Forum

I'm considering getting a C1. I haven't paddled one before. My current boats are L'Edge and Spark.

I paddle at a tight, pushy artificial slalom course most of the time (Penrith Whitewater: 500 cfs, 3 ft deep, 30 ft wide, dropping 91 ft/mile) because the levels are predictable, I can hone my river-running skills, and this summer has been bone dry.

A bloke hère has a plastic Dagger Atom for sale. I'm 5'10", 160 lbs. I haven't seen the boat, but he says it's in good condition.

Would this boat suit me considering the boats I'm transitioning from, and considering my size? I've read mixed reviews on cboats.net about the Atom, but I'm wondering if the boat is an odd one or if it only suits certain paddlers. There are plenty of composite slalom boats for sale to, and perhaps it would be better to get one of these. Any thought appreciated.

Well my view is you are comparing an older style boat with a more modern racing specific boat. Just even the weight difference is decent. Nothing wrong with the atom though, but if you get a slalom boat you might get hooked. Do you want a more general boat you can also use in boney conditions or a specific boat suited to exactly where you paddle? The atom will accelerate much quicker than your L'edge either way though, so you will get that feeling either way.

If you can get a slalom boat that's right for your weight, you'll find that handling on easier water (class 2+) is positively brilliant. The modern designs aren't twitchy or treacherous on easy water. I found that on class 3+, that flat rear deck did get levered now and then, and of course the boat will dive deep on drops if you don't know how to plan around it.

Most slalom boats have foam core decks, which are fragile. I always thought about that while I was upside down.

The Atom has racy handling for a poly boat, and you can take it anywhere without breaking the hull. But the handling is going to fall a bit short of that of a real slalom boat. It isn't light, and it feels like its weight at times. Still, if I had to choose a poly c-1, I would probably choose an Atom.

I hope every paddler has a chance to paddle a real slalom boat.

You will fit the Atom just fine, but if your paddling style is forward the bow will porpoise on you quite a bit at that gradient.

Sounds like you need a play boat.

The Atom is pretty fun but you already have a fast river runner….

I'm almost exactly your size (well, was... need to lose a few lbs;) ).

I would not get the atom - at your weight you can't quite easily sink the stern, but it is low enough you'll catch it on everything. You'll likely be miserable in the pushy water you will paddle most of the time.

I'll second getting a slalom boat (used) cut for your weight. You'll be much happier. I know that since i picked up my (now old school) Fanatic 2 my atom sits most of the time.

I'm not saying the Atom is a bad boat, mind you - it isn't. But at your weight it is a bit challenging. IMho 180 or 185+ is all good, and lighter (140 and under? Not as sure on this one) is likely good too.

I was kinda hoping y'all would suggest the Atom, cause I was looking forward to its indestructibility. Now, if I buy the carbon slalom C1, it looks like I'm gonna have to set up a space to patch a composite boat!

Going from the L'Edge to the Spark was a pleasant surprise in weight reduction and acceleration, but going to an even lighter boat will be dreamy.

I'm anxious about rolling successfully 100% on the pushy course--there are one or two spots where I choose to swim if I don't roll up the first attempt, otherwise getting bashed on a bollard is definite, and getting slightly pinned is possible. Do these boats fill up with water easily if the paddler swims? Do paddlers put air bags under the decks? Most of my mates there are recreational kayakers, so I don't have easy access to this info.

As an aside, a few of the rec kayakers have been trying to convert me lately. Not sure what's lead to their sudden interest.

I've never paddled a slalom boat. They look awesome.

I did paddle an Atom for a few years. At 190, I really liked it. But maybe Adam is right about it being extra catchy at your weight.

Airbags: yes! I put a pair under the bow deck. I think you could put them under the stern also/instead if they don't hinder your feet.

Have you considered doing a conversion?

buster blue wrote: Have you considered doing a conversion?

A conversion is another possibility for me. But I don't know which kayaks would be suitable, and I'm not particularly drawn to any of them.

Because I'm paddling at Penrith Whitewater so often, a used slalom boat would make sense because of their ready availability, and learning to paddle one of these would refine my skills for river running in open boats.

Thanks for the airbag info, busterblue.

Not that I've paddled one yet, but if you do a conversion, consider a Jackson Zen. If you were a kayaker, you'd probably choose a Zen 65, but for a c-1, you might want to be a bit lighter on the water. The Zen 75 is said to be faster for most weights.

For upstream gates, the Dagger Axiom has a stern that looks easier to slide under the water surface, but they say the Zen will do it too, and in my opinion, the Zen has a better rocker distribution for slalom moves.

Added bonus - pretty much every slalom boat I've paddled rolls easier than the Atom;)

I would pass on the atom. It does nothing very good. Get a slalom boat. If there are clinics or a slalom c1 crowd to learn from this will do more for your paddling skills than anything else you can do. Seriously... Good slalom paddlers style really difficult whitewater beautifully. I wish I had taken the time to learn...
And for more fun and great survival skills get a kayak playboat and convert it.
If you get real good in a slalom boat and playboat, you can paddle a creekboat down class V in your sleep.

Perhaps tell us why you are thinking about getting a C1.

C'mon now, Atom isn't all bad...Fun for stern squirts on eddy lines...There's got to be the perfect long-trough low angle big face wave for surfing it out there somewhere (I'm on the hunt!). I think it's a good skill developer too, if you can get a boof out of that thing you've done something, it prefers the pencil-style approach...it'll teach you hole-escape also, it don't take much to stop that boat! I've found it to roll easily though.

Dan P.

Paddle Power wrote:Perhaps tell us why you are thinking about getting a C1.

Why a C1?

To add precision to my paddling. Then take what I learn in C1 into any boat.

To paddle the entire olympic standard course (320-m long, pushy Grade III) in one go, without having to dump or pump.

To make some of the moves that I see slalom paddlers make, such as attainment, and stern slices.

My decision over the Atom or a slalom boat is based on both being available. And I thought the Atom might be a reasonable next step and the slalom boat too big a step. But it seems that bypassing the Atom has its value.