C-Forum

Hey folks

I know the Caption and Vertige-X have similar specs. I've paddled both, though too far apart, time-wise, to compare.

Which one would YOU choose? Why?

Thanks

Rick

Hi Rick,

I know others will be more picky, which is probably more helpful, but I don't sweat the difference between the 2 boats - big-picture, they both do the same things about as well.

The Caption may have a reputation for being more sporty, but I think it just benefits from the romance of being a much-loved Dagger.

So, I'd buy whatever hull was in better condition, at a better price, and/or had the best outfitting. Or, if the Vertige X came in red, I'd buy that.

At the Tamihi Five-O in September, do 1 run in a Caption, the 2nd run in a Vertige X, and let the proof be in the pudding!

Cheers, Pat.

Hmmm, an entire post of mine disappeared from this thread. Something I said?

Esquif themselves have described the somewhat conservative nature of the Vertige-X design compared to their other tandems such as the Nitro, Blast.

The Caption has a bit of a rail-y quality, a bit like the Ocoee. That could be positive for some.

I looked hard at the Caption back in '98, and chose the MR Synergy instead. That would have been a mistake if we had done a lot of ww tandem paddling, because the Synergy is a rather wet ride except for a small crew. In fact it is a bit of a wet ride for a solo cruiser, though a good handler for 15'.

I differ from Yarnellboat in that I think the Caption and Vertige X are different enough to require consideration of hullforms, not just specs. I would choose the Vertige X for general WW tandem cruising, but the Caption if I had a partner who could do weekend citizen race slalom with me.

Thanks, ezw -- A bit 'rail-y', vs 'conservative' makes the Caption a little more appealing to me for the use I'm looking for.

Pat, I've owned (and liked) a V-X before, but a Caption ride last June on the Similkameen, with hmatt in the bow, caused me to open my mind. I'd forgotten how much fun tandem boating could be!

Granted that the fact my bow partner is a superb boater helped that perception, but I really felt that the hull WAS, indeed, sportier. (And, YES, it comes in red!)

Maybe I'll drop some coin before the supply of Royalex dries up! Let the tandem revival begin!

Rick

... been driving Caption all around the west for the last two years as a 3+ solo tripping boat.
Packs lots gear in the center leaving the ends super dry and riot fun buoyant, just aim it at the slots and drops and go, that sucker can climb a wall. And it rolls Fully Loaded easier than any of my other boats in any other configuration, in case things don't work out. Really ups the "what the hull, just go for it" ante.

Probably wasn't the best boat in Desolation Canyon last weeks due to low flow speed and a gusty knockdown head wind day but...it was the best boat available at the time.

I'm looking for another one. Any colour.
The Craigs List Raider

Addendum.. or and then some.
Directly addressing the Tandem question> I find the Caption to be wetter amidships and the Vertige X to be wetter over the bow. I weight 205lbs.
e

Rick, Now I think you've got different questions on your hands... if buying a new Caption, it won't be the Dagger Caption you probably paddled (and yes, the bow partner may have been a factor!), so...

How does the old Dagger compare to the current Mad River? and

Would you rather buy from Esquif or Mad River?

I think if I wanted a Caption, I'd only be looking used. And for that, you need to be quicker than Einar and others!

Pat.

yarnellboat, are you referring mainly to the stronger Royalex in the old Dagger Caption? It's ironic that, back then, Mad River was trying to supply strong Royalex also. The Royalex on my '98 Synergy is outstanding, strong everywhere, but with selective reinforcement bands.

Somebody suggested in another thread that canoe makers have gotten more sensitive to the *supposed* issue of boat weight, and so have been ordering lighter blanks. I don't know about that, but when Royalex came out, and dominated southeast ww in Blue Hole OCAs, light weight was just not a consideration for buyers. It was durability, and really nothing else.

If I get concerned about weight, Royalex is not even on the list. I'd call Kaz and talk SS/KK.

Royalex could be a consideration too. But if it was a hull I wanted, I wouldn't not buy a new Royalex boat because old Royalex was better.

But I'm just not sure the Mad River model is very true to the Dagger hull. Could be just the trimmings, but MR Captions I've seen didn't really appeal to me, didn't really look like a Caption - that's just based on looks though, I have never paddled a MR model. But it's a question I'd explore before I bought a new MR Caption. When I think of the Captions I've seen and paddled, I think Dagger, and I don't assume the exact same qualities pass from one manufacturer to the next. So, I hear the question as "Can you compare a Vertige X to a [Dagger] Caption?"

Others who have paddled the Dagger & MR versions would have to weigh in whether the MR measures up.

Plus, I like what Esquif has been doing with designs for ww canoes, and I'm Canadian, and I have easier access to Esquif boats, so if it came to a coin toss on a new hull, I'd support Esquif over MR/Confluence.

Pat.

yarnellboat wrote: . . . I like what Esquif has been doing with designs for ww canoes, and I'm Canadian, and I have easier access to Esquif boats, so if it came to a coin toss on a new hull, I'd support Esquif over MR/Confluence. . .

Well, yes, I like what Esquif has done for boat designs, too. But as far as easier access. . . that's debatable. For years, Esquif has been ignoring the needs of westerners, IMHO, (ONE shipment per year, and no break on shipping prices, take it or leave it. . .)

The fact is -- if I want new (despite Rx concerns!) our dealer can land a MR Caption in Abbotsford by next week, OR a V-X in Calgary in a month.

Thanks, Pat and EZW for your insights, and thanks, Einar, for jumping in. Great info!

Rick

Interesting Rick. Because we see so many Esquif boats and so few MR boats, I assumed it was because Esquif's were easier to get here. All I really know is they're more common to see/demo.

Can anybody comment on the Dagger Caption compared to the MR version?

Pat.

OK, do you prefer closed captioning?

I've never paddle the MR Caption but while looking it over once it seemed that it wasn't as deep as the Dagger Caption.

I've owned two Dagger Captions and one Vertige-X, all outfitted for solo paddling. The response of the two were very similar. The Vertige-X has slightly softer chimes which I liked. I once paddled it in a flooded creek where the eddies were about a half mile apart. This was before pumps so I paddled most of it filled with water. The Vertige-X stayed very stable and I never flipped it. The only thing that I didn't like about the Vertige-X was the lack of an aluminum strip in the gunnels.

I liked both boats a lot. They both surfed like a dream. The only reason that that I got rid of them is that due to my being in my mid seventies they became too heavy for me to lift.

ezwater wrote:I liked both boats a lot. They both surfed like a dream. The only reason that that I got rid of them is that due to my being in my mid seventies they became too heavy for me to lift.

I can 2nd the weight of the VertageX, mine is HEAVY, perhaps atypically so. If is were a solo I would almost never use it just because of the weight factor.

Have never paddled a Vertige but have owned a Mad River Caption for about 5 years and love it. Have tripped in it, paddled it tandem and solo, and much prefer paddling it to my LEdge. Bought the Caption and LEdge both new from the same dealer and the MR boat was definitely easier to bring in than an ESQUIF boat.