T-Formex, the next generation of ABS

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dwinchester
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Re: T-Formex, the next generation of ABS

Post by dwinchester » Thu May 15, 2014 5:11 pm

Not sure if the link will work but there's a short article on Canoe and kayak's website about T-Formex. Exciting stuff. Proves once again that necessity is indeed the mother of invention. Kudos to Esquif! Way to keep on innovating and growing the sport!

http://www.canoekayak.com/canoe/royalex-2-0/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Jim Michaud
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Re: T-Formex, the next generation of ABS

Post by Jim Michaud » Wed May 21, 2014 1:35 am

A couple of weeks ago I wrapped my Encore around a rock and it got turned inside out. After finally Z-dragging it off the rock I was able to pop it back into shape and keep on paddling. T-Formex may be 10 times as abrasion resistant as Royalex but will it be able to survive being turned inside out without breaking into pieces? Just wondering. :roll:

canoeman61
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Re: T-Formex, the next generation of ABS

Post by canoeman61 » Wed May 21, 2014 1:34 pm

Encore? That is amazing that you still have one of those, Jim. Sounds like you have worn the Royalex down to where it is "supple like a glove" … I did not know a canoe could survive being turned inside out!

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GSG
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Re: T-Formex, the next generation of ABS

Post by GSG » Wed May 21, 2014 4:16 pm

Is it reasonable to expect a boat to survive a wrap as you've described? Personally, I think that's asking a lot of a material that also expected to stay rigid and hold its shape for years.

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Re: T-Formex, the next generation of ABS

Post by Paddle Power » Wed May 21, 2014 5:40 pm

Is it reasonable to expect a boat to survive a wrap as you've described?
That is exactly what boaters are used to since royalex has been around.
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Jim Michaud
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Re: T-Formex, the next generation of ABS

Post by Jim Michaud » Wed May 21, 2014 6:29 pm

The Encore was in very good condition. The vinyl wasn't even worn down to the ABS anywhere on the boat. I bought it at a very good price and I was using it as a beater boat. When it wrapped I had my foot caught between the thwart right behind the seat and the bottom of the boat. The saddle was also jammed up against my foot preventing me from freeing my foot. We tried cutting up the saddle but that didn't help any. After about a hour and several throw bag Z-drags the boat was moved just enough so that I could slip my foot out. When we finally got the boat free the bottom of the boat was up against the thwart. I grabbed the thwart and pushed on the bottom with my good foot and the boat popped back into shape. I was able to paddle it out.

Now the boat is a real beater boat. It suffered a destroyed saddle, a broken gunnel, a broken thwart, two torn air bags and a small hole in the floor. All damage has since been repaired and I've had it out on the river again. This is the third canoe that I've had wrapped like this and all three were able to be popped out then repaired.

This just happened two weekends ago so it got me thinking whether the T-Formax would be able to stand up to the same abuse.

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Re: T-Formex, the next generation of ABS

Post by hankrankin » Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:20 pm

How do y'all think a polyethylene canoe like the ledge or blackfly would deal with being wrapped like Jims encore?

seems to me that when PE boats (canoe or kayak) get severely wrapped they crack and fold beyond repair. I also have seen poly boats pop back out and be used again, but not when they are fully folded around a rock.

I think the force of the water would have to be much stronger to fold a PE boat compared to a royalex, maybe that will be the situation with t-formex.

has anyone on this forum folded up a ledge beyond recognition and popped it back out yet?

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Re: T-Formex, the next generation of ABS

Post by Daddy-O » Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:29 am

...having strong doubts about massive folding and unfolding success. Maybe given the same type of soul and creativity that developed around royalex repairs. "Perhaps creative softening and welding etc etc etc" :D I have seen some pretty innovative things being done with a welding setup.

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Re: T-Formex, the next generation of ABS

Post by kx250guy » Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:30 am

I hope T-formex is a great material for ww canoeing. We need it for sure . Im curious if Esquif has all the process down solid, R & D tested, why are they waiting till next year ? Have any canoes been made of this material and put to a long tough test yet? The press release sounded like its a sure thing.

Since t-formex is propitiatory, I hope it doesnt turn out to be super expensive . Uniroyal invented the Vulcanizing /proecss for royalex production . It took a bunch of engineers and about 7 million 1970's dollars to build all the processing machines as I recall . Other manufacturers who purchased the process just continued what Uniroyal had already invented.
Without Uniroyals money assets , Esquif has some how bypassed Uniroyal's Engineers , they must be rocket scientists! . Hope so, My poor Probe 12 is on its last legs!

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Origins of Royalex?

Post by Einar » Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:26 pm

For what use was the "Royalex" process originally invented? I can't see Uniroyal or anyone else deciding to corner the canoe manufacturing market in the '70's.
The only story that I've heard was that it is a spin off from molding car dashboards.
e
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Not misplacing all your crap in somebody else's car seems to be even harder

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Re: T-Formex, the next generation of ABS

Post by 2opnboat1 » Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:51 pm

I don't think anyone knows what it was first dreamed up for, one of the earliest uses was in the auto industry. Mainly for spoilers and things like that one of the biggest uses was on semi trucks for the big air thing on the cag.
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Re: T-Formex, the next generation of ABS

Post by Bob P » Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:13 pm

This is the first use that I remember:
http://www.forgottenfiberglass.com/1/pl ... buts-1964/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Einar
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Glenn Pray

Post by Einar » Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:53 pm

Thanks Bob.

Maybe it's time to name a new hull design after Glenn Pray.

Call it: "Just Pray"
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Not misplacing all your crap in somebody else's car seems to be even harder

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Re: T-Formex, the next generation of ABS

Post by magicmike » Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:32 am

I read somewhere that it was used as interior sound proofing material in early nuclear submarines. -M-

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Re: T-Formex, the next generation of ABS

Post by Paddle Power » Mon Jun 09, 2014 5:54 pm

Who first thought to use it (royalex) in canoes?
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