C-Forum

Ok, I may be cocky, but I'm not afraid to admit when I'm slightly freaked!
So... I just paddled an OC1 for the first time in 14 years(... on flat water...), but I'm determined to become a solid OC boater. I'm an experienced raft guide and fairly solid class 3-4 kayaker, but my heart has always been in the canoe camp since I held my first paddle at 3 years old.

I'm now 33 and just bought my first canoe ever!
I just picked up my esquif ledge, and today I took it out on a lake on my way home from getting it. I figured that I would just take it out for a quick run round... flat water... So, I left the drysuit on dry land and hopped in the boat in jeans and a down jacket. Just to settle any fears, this doesn't end in a swim, but it was closer than I would like to admit

So I pushed off from shore and took a few forward strokes... a bit shaky, but that's expected. Go for the first cross stroke, and was hit by a huge gust of wind at that exact moment! To give you an idea, later as I was packing back up in the car one of the gusts moved the boat 6 inches while sitting on pavement... so not a lame little puff of wind.

I haven't felt so shaky in any type of boat in... well, it would be 15 years... I had forgotten what it was like the last time I paddled an OC1 for the first time!

Anyway by the end of the session I was confidently paddling in a streight line or doing slow turns, and still a bit shaky on more aggressive changes in directions. I'm still a bit shaky transitioning from standing still to moving.

So my buddy(who is just taking his first steps into kayaking) is expecting me to go out with him next weekend on a section of the Chilliwack River(Fraser Valley, BC, Canada) class 2-2+(maybe 3). I know every rock on the river as I've been running it very regularly for 2 years, but I've never been so nervous about a trip down this river(even my first time).

I will be doing as much flat water and eddy practice(mild current with a few rocks) over the next few days. We shall see how this adventure progresses!

Have Fun,
Ian

Hi Ian,

After years of canoe tripping, I took my first ww solo down to the ocean for a flatwater paddle, stepped in, and nearly went right out the other side!

Don't forget to post on the local forum, you might get some canoes in the valley to join you:
http://paddlenet.myfastforum.org/index.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In fact, another guy appeared this fall with a similar story: lives on the Chilliwack, determined to be a good OC-1 paddler, been paddling a bit by himself, but had never found other canoeists, very interested in getting out, etc. Sounds like you guys should hook up! Not to mention Roscoe and The Geoff.

And although you've got the Chilliwack in your backyard, if you ever come into Van on the weekends, the winter season has just started - I hear there was about 10 canoes on the lower Seymour last weekend. It's a great class II run for practice:
https://plus.google.com/photos/11134919 ... 6724668705" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The good thing about knowing the river so well and having paddled it in different crafts at different times is that you shouldn't be scared of the river or of swimming it, so what have you got to lose!

Good luck, Pat.

Maybe lower the saddle? An inch can make a difference - especially if you are on the larger end of the spectrum.

The dry suit will help - it's not just thermal, it's mental!

Good luck!

I think you will gain control quickly to the point of being comfortable in class II.

As you said, practice a lot for the next week to gain experience with the edges and weight shifting.

Yeah, don't get too worried about it - you have other boating skills, the canoe skills will fall into place fairly quickly.

I was in an almost similar kind of place 2 years ago - I'd had my Ocoee a while but not paddled it for a couple of years and then only on flat moving water.
Tried to paddle a grade 2 rapid and swam right off the cuff which shook my confidence quite a bit. Then did a little flat water training on Loch Lomond until I was reasonably happy with my balance and got reasonably close to rolling it.
Next WW trip was in a rental Whitesell Piranha in the Grand Canyon - at Lees Ferry I literally had no idea if I was going to be able to manage it in the rapids (I had figured that at 14' it was going to handle more like a trad than my Ocoee). 200 miles later, I think I'd had 7 real swims, 1 swim trying to surf a wave and 1 swim on flat water trying to get comfortable, and 2 portages. After a couple of swims early on (none on day 1) I was able to relax, stop worrying about swimming and just learn to paddle the boat.

Your practise session is what has caused you concerns - OC1's are not stable like trad canoes, you don't just step in, you get on your knees right away or it will tip over. The boat reacts much more to little movements and you will take a little while just to develop a feel for that - the same way you can confidently walk on the side tube of your raft now allowing for the movement as your weight transfers onto it, but when you first tried years ago you probably almost fell off. Wearing your jeans instead of a drysuit really screwed with your mind because you knew that falling in could get to life and death (well certainly very uncomfortable), if you had been in your drysuit and had turned over you would probably have shrugged it off and tried again. Going out in strong wind was a mistake, all canoes (except low decked ones) are strongly affected by wind, it pushes them around making it difficult to get a feel for control and it can de-stabilise them too. Nothing worse than a committing to a cross bow stroke and having the bow blown round towards the paddle trapping it under the boat! But you can put all that behind you.

Make sure you have some good buddies on your first river trip, and wear your dry suit - you will probably fall in. You probably won't fall in on the crux of the the first rapid, you will fall in somewhere though either because you put on too much edge crossing an eddyline and dipped the gunwale (I still do that!), or you hit a rock that threw you to the off side, or some other niggling little thing that had nothing to do with the main focus of a rapid! You will have some moments where the flow is faster than your brain and you freeze between strokes trying to work out what stroke will work best next, and when/where to plant it (I decided that it is probably better to just commit to the wrong stroke than no stroke at all, that way I have the ability to brace on the wrong stroke). You may be lucky enough to find a drop that works best for someone who paddles on the other side to you (lefty line or righty line?) which will give you some real thinking to do!
I'd say dress for immersion, expect a few swims and get used to self rescue (OC1s are easier to tow if you turn them the right way up straight away), once you have done a few it ceases to be a source of worry and just an annoyance which spurs you on!

Getting used to the way the boat moves on the water - I had a disagreement with someone at Lava kind of stemming from that. I had got used to the way the boat bobbed as I got into it (9 or 10 days in the saddle), I had scouted Lava and it looked bad at the level so I needed to ferry to the far side to portage or line it. One of the kayakers wanted to help me get back in my boat, I was trying to politely refuse assistance because having someone else holding it changed the way it moved as I climbed in, and at that point I really didn't want a wobble as a result. They on the other hand were probably even more concerned than me to make sure I got in safely, but faced with a bit of a paddle upstream, long ferry and even longer portage/lining I really wasn't about to make time to explain to them why they could best help by not touching the boat as I got in. To be honest I would have forgotten about it almost immediately, but the kayaker got upset that I didn't say thank you for what they intended as help, which was actually a hindrance - well why would I?

18 months on, I'm pretty happy on grade 3 in the Ocoee, run a fair bit of grade 4 too, mostly waterfalls so far. I can sometimes roll but still swim sometimes. For years as a kayaker I was uptight about swimming (very rarely did), paddling OC1 has made me embrace it!

How's it going Ian? Were you and your kayaker friend going this weekend?

One thing to mention with the open boat is water level - generally speaking, canoes don't love the high water as much as the rafts and kayaks you're used to! If you previously considered a level of 1 (about 20m3/s) on the Chilliwack to be really low, you might find that's actually a good canoeing level, especailly when getting used to it. The canoes also tend to travel a bit slower than a similar group of kayakers.

So, hopefully you don't jump on to a really long run at highish water because it's what you were used to in your kayak! There's been some pretty good rains the past few days, so I thought that difference might be worth a mention!

Let us know how it's going!

Pat.

Thanks everyone...
It's good to get some positive encouragement. This week seems to have slipped away due to life's little obligations (I would prefer to paddle, but my bosses want me to work ). It's been pretty busy this week compared to my usual this time of year.

I was also intending to use some lighter sections of the Chilliwack for getting accustomed to the boat since I know the river so well, then when I got back to town with my boat the water had shot up. At this level even the easy bits are hard to swim to shore with a boat because the flow is moving pretty fast even in the down bits. Getting stopped is a challenge. Right now the level is over 1.6m.

Any suggestions for practice spots? I'm also posting on the local paddlenet forum.

Thanks,
Ian

Common park-and-practice spots would be:

The rec site at Tamihi, but of course you don't want to swim under the bridge (Sawmill Rapid?), so best at lower levels mentioned.

Osborne Rd., which can be the put-in for an easier class II section. On river right you have to carry boat down the rip rap, so access isn't as good.

"Garbage Cans", the beach at the foot of the long rapid (Campground?).

None of these are great, but they're OK. All three spots have multile channels or featurs that can be used for ferries, eddies, surfs etc.

Popular flows for most canoes are in the 20s and 30s m3/s. For some reason, most canoeists tend to talk about the Chilliwack in discharge, while most kayakers talk in levels.

Pat.

since i'm so far away, i hope this will not come across as a sales pitch.
The best thing you can do is get some quality instruction. Sure you can suffer the slow learning curve, but discovery technique of learning is slow. Learning the easy/correct way to handle the boat will lead to way more fun, faster.
paul
"fellow l'edge paddler"

The best thing you can do is get some quality instruction.

Unfortunately Paul, that's an almost impossible proposition in BC! There's not even a handful of instructors here in ww solo. If one could find an instructor, the courses may be seldom and/or far away, and are pretty basic (though maybe that would suit Ian for now). For modern/advanced instruction, we're basically dependent on somebody getting inspired every few years, or much less often than that, to try and coordinate bringing in somebody like you or Eli.

BC has lots of great rivers, but not a lot of great paddlers. There's not lot of instruction, motivation, or opportunity that help people improve, so most ww canoeists in BC get stuck in class II-III. There have been no instructors or other champions to help get a critical mass of people get over that hump, and/or nobody who's gotten over that hump has stepped into a role of instructor or champion to help grow a community of class III+ OC boaters. Maybe it's a lack of instructors/champions, or maybe that's just the way it is due to relatively low numbers of people in the sport here (i.e., there's not enough students to make instruction worth it), or maybe it's something else, but chicken-or-egg, getting quality instruction here is no easy option for poor Ian.

Ian, in the spring you can watch PaddleNet for a course that Roger & Allyson from the Kootenays usually offer on the Similkameen sometime in the spring/summer. Other than that, there is nobody, nada, zero offering any ww canoeing instruction anywhere around Vancouver or Chilliwack. There's maybe an instructor or 3 you could try to talk into some private lessons, which might not be a bad idea, but I haven't heard of much in the past few years, and I doubt they'd do it on the Chilliwack in the winter.

Great idea Paul, but good luck Ian!

Pat.

p.s. Any of you OC ww instructors from elsewhere who want to take a trip to BC and cover some of your costs, it probably would not be hard for you to find some eager students here!

p.p.s. Of the handful of instructors I can think of here, all have been around for 10, 20 or more years. Since I started ww solo almost 15-years ago, there has been no new energy in instruction around here, if anything, a decrease. How frequently a region generates a new instructor who offers courses is probably a good indicator of the health of the community.

yeah i hear you. I guess we're spoiled here. I did come out there quite a few years ago and there were enough folks to paddle, but yes I also got the impression that everyone in the area came to the course. Anyway, might be worth setting something up. Sometimes if we run an big beginner/intermediate course it can subsidize the smaller more advanced courses.
in the meantime definitely go and check out my paddlepointer videos. There is lots to be gleaned from the videos.
paul

Yeah, I was there, nervous to backferry across the gentle class II Cheakamus in my new-to-me 14' Old Town Otter! That must've been circa 2001. And then Eli was in the neighbourhoodd last summer. That's basically been it for us. Though Roger & Allyson offer good courses and the local club serves it's purpose too.

P.

p.s. Your paddlepointers are posted on our local forum in a sticky thread for online resources to get started.

http://paddlenet.myfastforum.org/forum3.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have enjoyed reading this thread.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in CanadIan/Ian's case, would not some CII (or CIII) instruction be useful and that level of instruction is available in BC.

As for more advanced instruction, CIV and beyond, BC would not be the only place with limited resources.

You're right Brian, but you can probably bump your classes down - there might be class II instruction available, but nothing really more advanced than that - I'm not expecting instruction for "class IV and beyond" (I don't even want to do that!), but advanced class III instruction would be nice. Canoeists here paddling class III-IV have probably already left the canoeing community behind and have a crew of kayakers to paddle with, in a sense they don't have it so bad here, because there's lots of those kayakers around and lots of runs. And for folks that commited, they are probably seeing instructors in places like Mexico and Costa Rica! My expectations for local instruction are not that high, and not what CanadIan is looking for.

I agree the standard, available class II course would be great for Ian - if those instructors from over the mountains on the the eastern edge of our province happen to offer a course within 3 hrs of Vancouver this spring, and if Ian hears about it and is available those dates - the instructors are great, there's just not a lot of choice, that's been it - one shot per year in the Okanagan. I'm also not certain they'd have a solo-specific course all the time, but could probably accommodate it anyway.

Locally in the spring the club in Vancouver offers a square-one "basic paddlers" course and a very simple introduction to moving water, and then there's a weekend of mentoring on a river run to get new paddlers ready for Rivers Week, which is a great opportunity to paddle about 10-days in a row with a big group of canoes on great class II-II+ rivers.

So, perhaps it's not as bleak as I make it sound, for novices is there is stuff to take part in that will help people advance. It's just not as easy to get quality instruction as Paul may have been thinking.

In Ian's case, he's 1 hr + out of Vancouver, so I'm not sure how much he's interested in the club's training that is here and at a river another 1 hr in the other direction. It also sounds like he's got a lot of river experience, and the club training caters to basic basics (though anyone can still gain from it), and he's on a great river where it sounds he may be getting out to paddle frequently, so I'm speculating he either won't bother to travel for club stuff and/or will feel it's a step backwards if he's already been out on his own.

It seems a lot of people with other experience and other opportunities just aren't into paddling with the club, though it's a great way to learn and to see a variety of runs. The club does a lot of beautiful runs that are plenty challenging/entertaining class II-III - I love those runs and am not hung up on wanting to paddle higher classes, a lot of the class II-III runs offer loads to do and are pretty ideal for fun ww canoeing, but the club trips don't appeal to everyone if they're used to kayaking and rafting in their own circles.

But yeah, if the instuctors offer a suitable course in the spring, that should be available and it would be great for someone like Ian, you're right.

Alternatively there is a slalom club in Chilliwack that has runs and pool time, etc. and maybe some C-1 racers would help him out, but it's oriented to competitive paddling and typically there has not been a lot of overlap between the slalom racers and recreational open boaters, but it's an outside-the-box idea that could be worth exploring. There's always ways if you make the time and put yourself out there.

Ian, keep us posted on PaddleNet in the spring if have any questions about the club activities or getting hooked up with Roger and Allyson for a course! In the meantime, you've got 6 months to poke around on the Chilliwack. Hopefully you can find some partners there, or come join folks in Vancouver sometime.

Einar, Rick or others around here in the PNW, am I being unfair about how hard it may be for a keen novice like CanadIan to find some good instruction?

Pat.

No Pat, you are not unfair, you have summed up my years of experience.

My history of finding my whitewater instruction has consisted of driving 10 hrs to Alberta/Kent Ford, driving 10 hrs to Prince George three times/Lyle, driving 8 hrs to south of Portland/Eli.
I haven't once taken a WW course in Vancouver or nearby.
WW instruction with Dave Mainer in Seattle might be a good option.
And when I say Whitewater course I meant an event to advance me and my skills specifically, not a WW Instructors course, as worthy an event as that is.

It is not just instruction, I also feel you have to paddle difficult runs with challenging partners otherwise the instruction atrophies and fades away. That to involves miles.
(Was that meant to be: challenging runs with difficult partners?)

(When I say "difficult runs" I don' mean the latest & greatest huck on UTube, I mean the next level up for you!)

In fairness to individuals striving to advance their canoeing in the West, it is not a popular sport in terms of numbers anywhere. Local paddlers in many various different locations have to struggle to find partners for grade 3-4, Portland is the only area that I have found so far that has a self sustaining group of good gr 3-4 canoeists.
In an aside conversation with Eli this summer we laughed together how paddlers in the West become monster road warriors, as he too was on a long tour out West.

Some times luck and a "take a chance" attitude helps too. This summer on a chance road trip with a friend I met a really good fun group of canoeists in Montana; I scooped up emails and cell numbers and am already working up a return visit. But, it's more miles.

By this August I was burnt out, I didn't want to do another inch on the I-5.

It was good burnout though, met a lot of new people, paddled some great rivers, and took 2 days of great instruction.
Anyways, thats how I get by, learning and advancing, west of the Rockies, on the road.
Einar