C-Forum

As things are finally wrapping up on the boat that shall not be spoke of I am trying to figure some things out.

1: How long does it take you to save money up for a new boat?

2: How often should a canoe company release new designs?

1. Forever (and only with spouse's approval! )
2. As often as they become available.

I can save up for a new boat much faster than I wear out, or otherwise grow tired of, a current boat.

So, saving the cash is not the problem; the problem is convincing me that there's a new hull or material worth buying! Even then - I'm convinced the L'Edge Lite is worth buying for me - but I haven't shelled out because my Ocoee is still good. So, I can save money to buy a new boat that I need, but I don't spend money on extra boats.

If was lighter, I'd be more tempted by more different designs; as a heavier guy, selection is limited so I don't get too excited. If I paddled more than a few times a year I'd obviously have more need for new hulls though, so I guess I'm really not a good guy to ask. I'm also pretty stuck on the habit of buying used, so I'm really not a good guy to ask.

Pat.

1. The money is saved ... I just need to be convinced the new boat is better than my current favorite. Since I started paddling a Prelude 5 years ago, I've been a pretty hard-to-sell-to customer. In fact, I haven't paddled a boat I like better. It may be out there though--I haven't had a chance, for instance, to paddle any of the Blackfly designs.

2. With the whitewater canoe market like it is (small), I appreciate any manufacturer that makes the leap and puts out a new design. Doesn't mean I buy it, but I do appreciate the fact people are making new designs for us.

i collect scrap metal to pay for my boats. takes about a year to make enough for a NEW boat.so i buy lots of used boats and resell them in the spring and summer up here in maine.

i seen a rumor of something kinda large jeremy@BLACKFLY had on top of his truck last time i seen him on the water? or if i could paddle nice and leave the rock alone i could sport for a MILLBROOK!

1. Never thought of that approach. I generally spend a lot of time convincing myself I don't need a new boat, and then impulse buy when I see something I like that I can afford at the time. So I won't be meeting a guy this weekend to try a Wheelboy C1 because I just had to pay the annual rental for my welding gas bottle so wouldn't be able to afford it until next month, by which time I'll be 500 miles away from that boat and I'll probably never look at one again because it was just an impulse thing that I noticed one for sale near where I'm going at the weekend......

2. It takes so long for current designs to filter over to the UK that new designs don't really interest me much, if we could just get more contemporary designs without having to arrange to import each one personally that would be enough to keep us happy

I'm taking my Ocoee (Dagger, I'm sure my friend got it in 1996) to the Hurley classic rodeo at the weekend, I'll be using it in the C1 class in the main event (might get re-categorized as OC1 on the day if I score any points) but I could also have entered old skool class in it - the criteria is anything over 8' long or pre-1999 design
There are only a handful of 8' OC1s in the UK - maybe a couple of dozen L'edges imported by LNC, and 2 or 3 Options imported directly by their owners, it will be a while before I see one those available to impulse buy!

I'm pretty much a 2nd hand poacher. I see myself as as the "market maker", the foundation that enables other players to buy up new and keep the game solvent.

I have purchased 4 hulls brand new though, two Mohawks, an Esquife, and a made to order glass play boat but, as I've gained more experience, I have become quicker pulling the trigger on CList, able to spot a 2nd hand deal and move on it. Or 3rd hand.
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1) It depends. On how much I want the new boat and on what my life situation (income vs. expenses)at thre time are. I have bought some new boats pretty much on a whim putting other purchases on the back burner, while at other time I put buying a boat on the back burner. the 'gotta have' factor of the boat has a lot to do with this, too.

2) This depends largely on the success of the current range of boats of a manufacturer, on whether there is a desire to grow market share and sales as well on where the market is heading.
To pull out an example from the kayak world, Dagger has not brought out a new full-on creek boat since about 2003 (I do not consider the Mamba as a full-on creeker). And why would they, the Nomad is still a top notch creeker and sells well. If on the other hand the market is moving clearly from one certain material to another and/or towards a certain style of boat let's say short and a manufacturer has a void in this range, then it may be time to release a new design. New designs will also grow overall sales, as they attract a new crowd.

TGG!

2. when there is a breakthrough, when there is a market or need, when a company wishes to expand or moving into new product lines, fill a void, etc. It depends but there should always been some reason behind that decision. I don't think the deciding factor should be based on time. i.e. once a year, twice a season, biannually, and so on.

When something special appears, or my paddling heads in a different direction I'll look for whatever seems to fit the best. Great example being the River Elf Storm Chaser - I saw it and felt that if I had designed a creek boat, that is what it would look like.... so I purchased one. As you know I'm more of a decked boater, but I did have a lot of fun in the L'Edge in Costa Rica. As my kids start paddling solo (a few more years... right now any solo paddling is done on flatware and under very watchful eyes;) ) I'll likely move to an open boat of some sort to make the in / out of the boat much easier.

1, about a year if I want a new boat.
2, release them as they are ready for market. What do you have to lose? The competition may just get another design out while you wait for the right time

However long it takes to buy a BlackFly. Period!

"1: How long does it take you to save money up for a new boat?" a lot less time than it takes you to release one (~2 years and counting since you send out a teaser)

"2: How often should a canoe company release new designs?" However often it takes to stay competitive. Longer if you have a great design, shorter if it's crap.

1 - One good income tax return.
2 - Whenever they feel like it.

Larrry I am not making excuses but in the last 2 years we have rebuilt a complete blow mold manufacturing facility, moved our shop from a 10000 sqft building to a 22000 sqft building, developed a completely new process for making canoes, along with develop a completely new process for making molds. Moved one business from Wa state and never missing a shipping deadline. All while still feeling orders selling in the neighborhood of 100 canoes. All of this with two people. One spends 3 weeks at a time in blow mold world and me handling everything in Chatty. So no need to be an butt we are working as fast and as hard as we can to produce top quality products for a decent price.