Fix or paddle?

[stroker]

I picked up a '93 Ocoee (my first WW canoe) and wonder if I should do any maintenance to have it ready for paddling. There's a fair (not excessive) amount of ABS showing on the hull and I've wondered if it would be a good idea to cover the exposed areas with an epoxy or something. My main concern though, is an area of delamination going on under the knee area. Is this something that needs to be addressed? It seems it would affect the hull strength, and possibly cause issues if it spreads. How would I go about fixing this, or should I just let it go and paddle? This boat has a lot to teach me, so a fair amount of low water runs and some inadvertant rock bashing is probably in its future. I'd like to do what I can to keep it alive.

[JimW]

If you are storing it indoors I would just get out paddling for now, if you need to store it outside you probably want to cover the core up - paint is your best bet, epoxy based should work OK (or pigmented epoxy) unless anyone has a better idea.

Delamination is probably where someone straightened out a dent using hot water or something - I did that to the stern of mine a few months ago and could feel the inside vinyl had detaches from the ABS, I don't think there is anything you can do about that. If it lifts with the knee cup or something forcing you to fix it, I would guess the best bet would be to pare it away with a sharp chisel and coat with epoxy to protect the ABS.

[stroker]

It's being stored inside and I don't see it causing an issue with the outfitting. Thanks Jim

[Roy]

My take is a little different.

If you, or anyone else, is EVER going to fix this boat, NOW is the time to do it. If you want to just paddle it until it croaks, and then grow earth worms in it, fine...run it the way it is.

But, repairing Royalex right at the time you have worn through the vynel is really easy. Once you are worn into the foam...not so much. I like an expoxy and polyester cloth repair. System 3 epoxy works well; one buys the PE cloth from Sweet.

As far as the delam...I would look into a Gorilla Glue based repair.

It turns out that right now is winter. What else will you be doing with your time?

Roy

[stroker]

It turns out that right now is winter. What else will you be doing with your time?
Roy

Which is why I asked! Anyone have a link to a "How To" blog, video, etc., for the Gorilla Glue and PE cloth/Epoxy type repairs? I seem to be coming up short in my searches. Thx

[JimW]

It turns out that right now is winter. What else will you be doing with your time?

I guess that depends where you are, here in the UK winter is paddling season, summer is for doing repairs....

[Karl M. Nelson]

You can fix the delamination by drilling small holes (0.25 in dia) several inches apart into the void but not all the way through the hull. Then inject G Flex into the void through the holes. Cover the delaminated area with wax paper and place a 25 lbs bag of sand on the wax paper to "clamp" the hull back together. You will have to strategically prop the boat up on saw horses so the "holy" area is horizontal so the G Flex won't drain out.

[jakke]

No Jim, summer is for paddling in the Alps .

[JimW]

No Jim, summer is for paddling in the Alps .

If I can spare the time to get out there and back.....

My last Alps trip was in 2000, I discovered the US in 2001(California) and just go there now instead, but not every year because it costs a bit more to get to!
Been a while since I've paddled in California now, I keep meaning to go back but the Grand Canyon keeps drawing me instead

[stroker]

Thanks for the info Karl. I think I like the idea of using the G-Flex rather than the Gorilla glue for the de-lam.

[sbroam]

I've used GFlex and Gorilla glue for delam / injection fixes - both work. Gorilla glue is easier to find. Be careful with the sand bag - too much weight could compress the fixed area too much, maybe even make the hull sag - probably more of a concern where the hull is flat than right at the chine.

Spay paint to cover the exposed ABS is a good idea, just note it isn't durable and be prepared to recoat - cheap and easy, though.

[stroker]

OK, my plan is to drill into the delam area, fill with G-flex or maybe Gorilla, then lay some PE cloth and epoxy over the exposed ABS areas to beef them up. Is it cool to drill the holes and fill the void from the outside of the hull? It's so much easier to identify the area that needs filled and I wouldn't have to redo the outfitting. I am going to be laying some cloth and epoxy over the top of those areas anyway.

Also, I'm looking at covering a 3ft by 2ft area. I'm pretty handy at most things, but since this is my first time to do this, can I work the whole area with the cloth and epoxy in one shot?

[Roy]

I'd say your from-the-outside plan seems fine. A 60 cc syringe works well for injecting all sorts of stuff.

My only additional suggestings: (1) do the delam repair, let harden, then sand/prep the outside (maybe that is your plan, anyway), and (2) find something which resembles the shape of the big hull patch and practice laying up a patch on that.

Discovering patch lay-up difficulties on a practice piece is better than having to grind a messed-up patch off a boat. The patch will also test your epoxy measuring/mixing. Yes, removing an expoy patch which will never harden is even worse than grinding one off the boat. Maybe put a patch on a 30 gallon trash can?

Roy

[stroker]

Roy, thanks again for being so helpful with your e-mails and posts! The idea of testing a patch on something first sounds like a good one.

[JimW]

I'd say your from-the-outside plan seems fine. A 60 cc syringe works well for injecting all sorts of stuff.

My only additional suggestings: (1) do the delam repair, let harden, then sand/prep the outside (maybe that is your plan, anyway), and (2) find something which resembles the shape of the big hull patch and practice laying up a patch on that.

Discovering patch lay-up difficulties on a practice piece is better than having to grind a messed-up patch off a boat. The patch will also test your epoxy measuring/mixing. Yes, removing an expoy patch which will never harden is even worse than grinding one off the boat. Maybe put a patch on a 30 gallon trash can?

Roy

Yes, being pretty experienced with epoxy and laminating I would prefer to do the repair in one shot, inject/fill and then patch directly over the top, BUT I completely agree that if it is your first time it is well worth breaking it down into manageable steps. Make sure you sand cured epoxy well to get a good bond with the next step.

Also make sure you heat your workspace to a suitable temperature, when epoxy hardener says for for example "use above 5C" what it means is, won't cure it the temp is less than that (will eventually cure when the temp goes up but the chemistry might be a bit screwed up by then). Keeping epoxy at room temp makes it less thixotropic so it will be easier to inject.

As Roy alludes to, epoxy is much more sensitive than polyester to getting the mix right, you can't speed the cure up or slow it down by changing the amount of hardener (you can by changing the type of hardener or increasing the workshop temperature) it has to be mixed in the right proportions, and the density is not 1000kg/m^3 (SG = 1) so pay attention to whether you are looking at the ratio by weight or by volume because they are different (most brands give you the ratio by volume so you can measure in graduated cups or syringes). I have to say, as long you measure carefully, epoxy is really easy to work with, just make up small batches at a time - 50ml or 100ml of resin + the appropriate amount of hardener. I often mix 100ml at the start of a repair knowing that a lot of it will soak into the brush and/or roller I'm going to use, and then 50ml batches after that whilst the brush/roller are already wetted. Sometimes I'll mix as little as 20ml at a time using a small syringe to get the appropriate amount of hardener. I'll let you work out what any of that means in US units!