C-Forum

Has anyone out there actually tried the Novacraft Ocoee made of the new material "Tuff Stuff?" How was it?

That's just a fancy word for "composite", isn't it?

Does anyone know the price?

There is a video of them dropping the boat off their warehouse.

I've used Innegra-S in a couple boats approx 5 years ago. Innegra behaves a lot like Spectra, meaning it floats on the resin, and internal delamination can happen. Secondary bonding is nonexistent. Having said that, there have been a couple improvements with Innegra and it may be worth trying again. I still believe you have to "bury it in the sandwich", not have it as a final layer. Just my opinion.

According to their website they are forming them from tformex.. Maybe the site isn't up to date.

I also saw it mentioned in one of the paddling magazines that Nova Craft was going to make the Ocoee out of T-Formex ... which makes sense because the Ocoee mold is a vacuum form setup for Royalex. They would have to make a form of some sort that is suited to a fiberglass process to make Ocoees out of TuffStuff.

They do have some interesting videos, dropping off a high roof, hitting with a big hammer, standing on it, bending a piece of it back and forth with a pair of pliers. What I really wanted to see was realistic river conditions. There is one video of some people broaching a tandem canoe on a rock in a river and then hauliing it off, and that was useful. They even wrapped it and apparently got it off and it went back into shape. That was pretty good, although it did not take as much current to wrap it as would have been required of a royalex hull.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXsXRcRgD6Q" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But has anyone actually paddled one of their Ocoees on a class 3 or 4 river?

In this video the guy says the material is three layers of basalt and innegra, whatever that means.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JYXMpA19sI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And then there is the extremely interesting question of whether you could use the molds that were used for royalex to make Tuff Stuff canoes. I have no idea.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Innegra/421958924567657" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Saw on another forum that someone emailed Novacraft about Tformex after hearing about Esquif - NC hoped to use it if Esquif was able to produce it, but obviously that door is shut.

Here is a video of Tuffstuff that I thought was useful (shows wrapping around rock):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXsXRcRgD6Q

Nova Craft is not making Ocoees out of T-formex because T-formex does not exist. Esquif canoe was attempting to develop T-formex (whatever exactly that is since Esquif wouldn't say) but now that Esquif has gone belly up T-formex won't happen, unless there is a rebirth of the company or some one else picks up the ball. Jacques Chasse said in an interview it was going to cost $500,000 to continue T-formex development and since 80% of Esquif's production was Royalex, there was no way to raise that kind of dough.

Nova had planned to purchase T-formex from Esquif if and when that happened. Tuff Stuff is simply a different composite layup schedule, as Kaz indicated. I don't think any Ocoees have been made from it. Since Innegra floats on resin it would require vacuum bagging or infusion to build one with it which would require a new mold.

Question for Kaz: since you say that secondary bonding to Innegra is nonexistent does this mean that repairs using conventional resins and hand lamination are impossible or impractical if it is used as a surface layer? One of my big concerns about Tuff Stuff is will it be repairable by an amateur backyard canoe mechanic such as myself. If it is not, it won't be any better as a whitewater canoe construction material than Twintex was.

Paul,
As far as I know, what I said is true. But please feel free to ask the company before you purchase their boat. Ask for a guarantee.
If you are trying to "glass in" anchors onto an Innegra woven material, the bond won't last very long, if at all. Actually, when I asked the Innegra company salesman this question, he advised against it. However, with a final layer of glass or Kevlar, it seems to bond fine.
Thanks for asking.

Well begosh and begorrah, it looks like someone did make a composite mold for the Ocoee, although it isn't Nova Craft and it is not being made out of Tuff Stuff:

http://www.rapidmedia.com/whitewater/ca ... dium=email" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That wrapping video was hilarious.

I wrapped a Sunburst two with a 10 year old daughter on the Big South Fork, I was not very happy, but it more than survived. BTW, daughter survived and taking care of 5 of 9 future river rats. (one female which appears to have extreme ww potential....crazy girl with no fear).