I've been working on the rolls in the pool all winter, and if I concentrate, I'm usually successful rolling whatever OC-1 I'm in. When rolling, I usually wear an old retired PFD in the pool. (Oh, and shorts of course.) Observers usually confirm I have an effective hip flick, head is last out of the water, and comes as low as possible across the front airbags.
Yet on the river, warming up in a flat eddy, my roll has been a dismal failure.
Now, currently my river attire includes a full-cut FNA helmet, and a PFD with pin-gear in the pockets (biners, prusiks, pulley) -- neither exactly lightweight.
(Can you hear the wheels turning??)
So, yep, last pool session, I wore the aforementioned river PFD and helmet, and -- BINGO! Most rolls were unsuccessful.
So -- wondering if anyone else has had similar experiences.
I don't want to compromise safety, but -- lighter helmet? Carry the pin kit elsewhere or elsehow?
Suggestions? (Other than golf.)
Thanks!
Rick
Paddling Gear and Rolling
Moderators: kenneth, sbroam, TheKrikkitWars, Mike W., Sir Adam, KNeal, PAC, adamin
-
Pierre LaPaddelle
- CBoats Addict
- Posts: 492
- Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:21 am
- Location: Vancouver Island, BC
Paddling Gear and Rolling
C'est l'aviron. . . !
Re: Paddling Gear and Rolling
Try taking the pin kit out and see if that changes the equation. It might be forcing you a bit higher on your sweep into the boat.
Re: Paddling Gear and Rolling
I doubt if the weight is the problem, think about these things:
- Different PFD, different cut, might affect how you move differently.
- Some people find a helmet with built in peak creates more drag when rolling.
- Where you wearing any other clothing differently - drysuit or something?
- If you are storing pin kit in the front of your PFD, does it stick out in front more than your training PFD? I have had a different success rate at rolling when wearing a slalom PFD compared to wearing an river running PFD - I noticed by getting in my boat on the land that when I try to get forward wearing my river running PFD, the front pocket bounces off the bulkhead where the slalom type doesn't. Slightly annoying since the rivers I am most likely to need to roll on are the ones where I'll be wearing the PFD that bounces!
- Different PFD, different cut, might affect how you move differently.
- Some people find a helmet with built in peak creates more drag when rolling.
- Where you wearing any other clothing differently - drysuit or something?
- If you are storing pin kit in the front of your PFD, does it stick out in front more than your training PFD? I have had a different success rate at rolling when wearing a slalom PFD compared to wearing an river running PFD - I noticed by getting in my boat on the land that when I try to get forward wearing my river running PFD, the front pocket bounces off the bulkhead where the slalom type doesn't. Slightly annoying since the rivers I am most likely to need to roll on are the ones where I'll be wearing the PFD that bounces!
Buy a....
Buy a full size Capilano beanie from MEC for $29.
Dan McG and I have been tuning up our kayak rolls in winter water at the Seymour, wearing standard half size beanies.
One day I bought a MEC full size "Capilano" beanie, just to deal with the ice cream headaches from repeated cold water rolls. Best $29 I have spent.
It is great, really keeps the head warm and.... helps you mentally slow down your roll, do a better set up, get the hull ahead of the head.
And stay out of the warm pool, practice what you paddle.
e
Dan McG and I have been tuning up our kayak rolls in winter water at the Seymour, wearing standard half size beanies.
One day I bought a MEC full size "Capilano" beanie, just to deal with the ice cream headaches from repeated cold water rolls. Best $29 I have spent.
It is great, really keeps the head warm and.... helps you mentally slow down your roll, do a better set up, get the hull ahead of the head.
And stay out of the warm pool, practice what you paddle.
e
Paddling is easy, organizing shuttles is hard.
Not misplacing all your crap in somebody else's car seems to be even harder
Not misplacing all your crap in somebody else's car seems to be even harder
Re: Paddling Gear and Rolling
Rick,
I glad to hear your working on that roll.
- so next session why not try your old pfd with the helmet, then new pfd and no helmet, etc.
That way you'll know what's causing the failed rolls.
I hope there is more gear differences going from the pool to the river than what you have mentioned.
Is your drysuit at all restrictive? Try wearing it in the pool for a few rolls....rinse it off thoroughly.
Do you wear a throw bag around your waist? I ended up placing my throw bag at my side.
Elbow pads?
Just throwing out some ideas for you to think about.
Ross
I glad to hear your working on that roll.
- so next session why not try your old pfd with the helmet, then new pfd and no helmet, etc.
That way you'll know what's causing the failed rolls.
I hope there is more gear differences going from the pool to the river than what you have mentioned.
Is your drysuit at all restrictive? Try wearing it in the pool for a few rolls....rinse it off thoroughly.
Do you wear a throw bag around your waist? I ended up placing my throw bag at my side.
Elbow pads?
Just throwing out some ideas for you to think about.
Ross
-
Pierre LaPaddelle
- CBoats Addict
- Posts: 492
- Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:21 am
- Location: Vancouver Island, BC
Re: Paddling Gear and Rolling
Thanks for the positive suggestions, folks!
Further to Ross' comments, I'm going to take along a variety of helmets and PFDs to the next practice session, and try them all in different combinations. I'm also going to look at revising the storage of pin-gear -- trim down the front profile of the PFD.
Further to all your combined ideas, I recall Eli looking at my Option last summer, and suggesting I trim the foam at the top front of the bulkhead, where it's held in by the front thwart, to allow me to swing my torso lower across the front airbag.
(IMHO, the high gunn'ls, high front of the bulkhead and placement of the bow thwart, right where one needs to sweep low, are unfortunate design features of high hulls like the Option or L'Edge, or even the Fly -- especially for short-flower butted boaters like I am. I love the boats, but they're too dam high.)
Einar, your point about practising on the river, rather than the pool, is certainly relevant -- and, yes, that's the goal! I do have a full beanie, though I rarely use it, being not unduly affected by ice-cream headaches.
Further to Ross' comments, I'm going to take along a variety of helmets and PFDs to the next practice session, and try them all in different combinations. I'm also going to look at revising the storage of pin-gear -- trim down the front profile of the PFD.
Further to all your combined ideas, I recall Eli looking at my Option last summer, and suggesting I trim the foam at the top front of the bulkhead, where it's held in by the front thwart, to allow me to swing my torso lower across the front airbag.
(IMHO, the high gunn'ls, high front of the bulkhead and placement of the bow thwart, right where one needs to sweep low, are unfortunate design features of high hulls like the Option or L'Edge, or even the Fly -- especially for short-flower butted boaters like I am. I love the boats, but they're too dam high.)
Einar, your point about practising on the river, rather than the pool, is certainly relevant -- and, yes, that's the goal! I do have a full beanie, though I rarely use it, being not unduly affected by ice-cream headaches.
C'est l'aviron. . . !
Re: Paddling Gear and Rolling
Your body has to move through the water during the first part of the roll, so resistance to movement in the water may be a factor, along with weight when you start to clear the water.
Back in the day (1980) I wore a single Flotherchoc pfd on the Ocoee, always rolled my c-1 easily. But on my one run of the New River Gorge, I wore two Flotherchocs, one over the other, and immediately found it harder to complete the roll. I believe the problem was the amount of extra water weight in the two pfds, as well as the increased resistance to movement through the water during the roll. Flotherchocs were very flexible, so it is unlikely that wearing two contributed to any change in my rolling motion.
All my older, multi-tube life jackets were more difficult to roll in. Modern, slab-style life jackets pick up less water and move more easily through the water.
As for helmets, those that are closer to the skull, have less space for water-on-the-brain, and pose less resistance to movement through the water, are going to contribute, in a small way, to a more reliable roll.
Back in the day (1980) I wore a single Flotherchoc pfd on the Ocoee, always rolled my c-1 easily. But on my one run of the New River Gorge, I wore two Flotherchocs, one over the other, and immediately found it harder to complete the roll. I believe the problem was the amount of extra water weight in the two pfds, as well as the increased resistance to movement through the water during the roll. Flotherchocs were very flexible, so it is unlikely that wearing two contributed to any change in my rolling motion.
All my older, multi-tube life jackets were more difficult to roll in. Modern, slab-style life jackets pick up less water and move more easily through the water.
As for helmets, those that are closer to the skull, have less space for water-on-the-brain, and pose less resistance to movement through the water, are going to contribute, in a small way, to a more reliable roll.