C-Forum

Anyone paddled a fluid solo large? Looking for characteristics as related to a heavy L'edge. Looking for the same feel but hopefully with faster acceleration and at least close to the same secondary stability. I love my L'edge but thinking of turning my back on the whole open canoe thing for a while.

I haven't tried a fluid solo but from what I ve read, it doesn't sound like a great c1- especially for Ontario. Look for something with a planning hull.

Aside from the durability issues they ve had in the past, (imo) the l edge is by far the best all around design going. You ll be hard- pressed to find a design that really compares.

I just bought a large karma, I ll let you know how it goes.

Definitely let me know how you like the Karma! I don't really want to get rid of my L'edge but do like the skirted thing now that I've been paddling my score conversion. I wouldn't have enough room or use the L'edge enough to justify keeping it if I were to find a Creek/river-running conversion that I like. When we get some water in the fall I may shoot you a message if I'm heading down to the gorge for a run. If you'd be ok with it I wouldn't mind hopping in your Karma for a little test paddle. Hard to pick out a conversion with so few around here to try.

Wodza wrote: Hard to pick out a conversion with so few around here to try.

Welcome to conversions! I've converted 7 different kayak designs. Never have I been able to try one out or get a canoe paddler's review on one until I've converted it myself. Wait.. one, the Blunt, was raved about by Alden on here years ago, so I tried it out. Never regretted any of the efforts. Was always able to sell (as kayaks) the ones I didn't wear out.

Agree with Ian to look at planing hulls.

Larry what boats have you converted? Have you paddled a L'edge and if so which one most closely compares to a L'edge in your opinion?

Thanks for your reply.

This may or may not help, but a mate who has recently started kayaking because the rest of his family do it, decided on the basis of trying a very limited range of boats, that he preferred the burn (mk II) because it felt most like his ledge, kind of extrapolated from canoeing to kayaking.... I have no idea how accurate his thoughts are.

I have a burn (mk I) which I got as a safe option for kayaking harder stuff (I'm getting too old to keep battering my ankles by running steep stuff in playboats), and I don't really get on all that well with it - it is relatively easy to paddle on rapids, but a dog on the flat in between, this may however be a trim issue - I need to try moving the seat back a bit more. I think ultimately my problem is that I just don't like the concept of creek boats - too heavy and no opportunity to play on the river, serious boats, not fun boats. I boat for fun - that's why I'm paddling OC1 more, back to easier rivers, new challenges, new fun!

I've been in a couple of ledges, but not for long enough to judge how it compares with the burn.

Haven't paddled a l'edge, haven't been in any open boat for years.. so I really can't help with a comparison.
But I've converted the wavesport X, necky blunt, bliss stick flipstick, H3-255, burn L, prijon pure xl, wavesport habitat and the 2nd generation burn.
The best for me is the burn. The worst was the habitat.

Best advice I can give is to get a saddle system that you can remove and reinstall easily. You don't want to spend eons carving and glueing foam bulkheads into a boat that may not be your friend.

Never paddled a Solo, but a friend of mine who had one as a K1 called his the SlowLow. He sold it rather quickly. Wouldn't consider one for a C1 conversion.
I have paddled the L'Edge extensively while guiding in Costa Rica and Mexico, so I can draw a few compariosons. No C1 conversion will have the initial stability of the L'Edge, but most of them will accelerate betted and be faster.
The ones I have paddled, next to proper C1s like an Atom, Cascade and Finkenmeister are the Everest, Burn, Big Gun, Blunt, Stomper and now a Karma.
I hated the Stomper 90. It sounded like a great mix gbetween the Remix and the Jefe. It wasn't Slow, didn't carve at all, didn't hold a line to save it's life, got pushed around a lot and wanted to stern ender in each hole. It boofed well though. I sold it rather quickly.
Tried out a Burn and a Everest a few time, they seemed decent, stable, reasonable speed, good acceleration, but seemed to get blown off line too easily. Didn't feel enough love to consider one for myself.
Paddled a friends Big Gun a bit, found it stable and forgivng, but pretty slow. boofed well.
Converted a Blunt for an expedition to Nepal. Liked it a lot, good acceleration, decent stability, but slow to resurface after big drops. Could have used a bit more volume and a more crowned deck.
The best one of the crop by quite a margin IMHO is the Karma. I have a medium. glod primary stability combined with fantastic secondary one. Carves nicely on its edges, but still forgiving on slides. Holds a line, yet spins quickly when held flat. Good speed and acceleration. Boofs like a dream, resurfaces nicely and very controlled. Punches holes well, the fat stern keeps it from stern endering. It is the first conversion I paddled that feels like it was ment to be a C1. I like it almost as much as my Big Dog Force OC1, which is hands down my favorite OC1. Didn't like the look of the JK C1 outfitting, made my own.

Just my 2 cents.

TGG!

Thanks for the replies all! I think I'll stay away from the solo, doesn't sound like what I'm looking for regardless of how cheap it is. Maybe Ill get myself a tie dye karma!

Slightly off topic but enjoyed to read what The great Gonzo had to say on conversions and the Karma in particular (I do share his thoughts on the JK outfiting)
Gonzo, where does the Fink fit in now you find the Karma so good? Would you still paddle it?
I was in Switzerland couple of weeks back and saw Thomas Fink paddle his old Fink and was struck by how well the boat looked in the water, like its in the water for its entire length instead of bobbing around on top, part of me longs to return to a Fink because of the enjoyment to be had from paddling a boat designed as a C1 but boat design moves on so it irks me a bit that we as group tend to convert kayak cast offs when there are such great new boats to choose from.

I have not paddled the Finkenmeister since late 2013/early 2014, as it is still in the Esprit boat house in Costa Rica, so my memory is a bit foggy, but I'll try to make a comparison between it and the Karma M anyway. My weight bounces between about 175 and 190 lbs. Currently closer to 175.
-Speed: The finkenmeister is faster, but the Karma is no slouch either, faster than I expected it to be.
-Resurfacing: The FM resurfaces, due to its hugely crowned deck, a bit faster and more predictably.
-Stability: The karma has definitely more initial stability. It also seems to have a touch more secondary stability. This is someting I found really surprising.
-Boofability: The nod goes to the Karma. Boofs like a charm.
-Hole punching ability: They seem to be on par but with soemwhat different behaviour. Whereas the stern of the Finkenmeister always sank a tad, without sternendering and then got pushed out of a hole the Karma just seems to plow right over it. That being said, I have not tackled any 'oh s#!+ ' size holes yet .
Maneuvrability: The Karma turns better, hans down, be it during carving or spinning turns. You can however not pivot turn it, something heavier paddlers are apparently able to do.
Holding a line: Both do it well when the chine is engaged:
Dealing with boils and seams and stuff: Both are awesome and are not affected by them, the Finkenmeister seems to be, due to its extreme flare, even a bit less affected.
Predictability: The karma always does excactly what I expect it to do. The Finkenmeister sometimes caught me off guard, mainly when one suddenly got water pressure on the relatively low volume stern.

While I think that the Finkenmeister is a good boat, the Karma definitely shows that boat design has progressed. To me it paddles as well as I could expect any purposly designed C1 to paddle. It is the first C1 that does not want me to go back to the Finkenmeister.Whereas in the finkenmeister I felt I always had to paddle it aggressively I feel that In the Karma I can relax sometime and float for a bit or even backpaddle while boat scouting on unfamiliar runs I always had to move the Finkenmeister forward to avoid the stern doing something funky.
The only boat I still like a little better is the Big Dog Force OC1. I wish Big Dog made a decked version of it (I have never paddled a converted Force C1, so I can't compare that).

TGG!

Thanks Gonzo, I will move on from my "I loved how the Fink rode thoughts". Even Thomas has moved on, told me he is waiting for a new open boat...