C-Forum

Hey guys,

Team Blackfly is pulling together travel plans for 2016 and we'd like to head out west! I know a lot of western paddlers haven't had a chance to demo the newer canoes, especially the aluminum-molded boats. If we were going to hold some demos in California, the PNW, Vancouver, and elsewhere, where should we be looking?

We'd love to meet up with paddling clubs, canoe groups, or anyone wanting to try an open boat. If you have a club or event that you'd like us to swing by, email me at loomiscm (at) gmail (dot) com and we'll get it on the calendar

Hopefully this will let us all have an awesome summer on the water!

Chris

JANUARY 2016 EDIT:

Here are some tentative dates for where we think we're going to be. We'll start working to organize demos and solidify this

May 21-22 - Arkansas

May 27-June 12 - Blackfly Corporate Retreat in the Grand Canyon

June 18 - July 2 - California or Colorado (snowpack dependent)

July 9 - July 23 - Pacific North West

Aug 6 - Aug Aug 20 - Vancouver/BC

Questions right back at ya...

What time do you think you might be around? Let us know if you've got any best guesses or restrictions.

What do you have in mind? To put it bluntly, what do you need to make it worth your while? I wouldn't want to encourage you to come out of your way for something you'd consider a bust - how small an event/audience is too small?

There are decent canoe clubs in Vancouver, on Vancouver Island, and in Seattle and Portland, so I'm sure you'll receive some ideas.

Thanks, Pat.

p.s. I just heard some comments locally about a recent run that included a couple of Options and a couple of L'Edges, the comment was basically that we're finally starting to see some new hulls get some traction out West, where H2Pros, Imulses, Rivals, and so on were too common for too long.

Hey Pat!

Totally fair questions, I'll try my best to answer:

Dates - Team Blackfly pulled a GC permit that ends in mid June, so any time after June 15th is fair game. The thought was to start from Flagstaff and work our way up to Seattle/Vancouver, trying to time water levels. We can wait until snowpacks to make hard calls, but if there are big events with dates, we can try and make those happen.

Group size - We're happy to work with whatever you've got, given that we'll only have about 10 weeks to try and hit a few different places. Hopefully getting a plan in place with dates will allow interested boaters to save the dates. As far as clinics go, we'll approach that on an as-need basis.

In an ideal world, we're able to get about 5-7 weekends booked up in a logical pathway, starting in Cali and heading north through the PNW and ending in BC

Cheers

OK thanks! So, 7ish weeks after June 15th-ish, ending in BC, would mean that in your ideal world BC has some suggestions for early-August-ish?

That's kinda the doldrums for local paddling, and conflicts with prime holiday time when folks are away, but for that reason we did do a few self-organized, mentoring-type "clinics" in mid-August this past year, so we could use something like those? There's really nothing big, official or local that I can think of for canoeing in August here, but on the other hand there's always something if an opportunity knocks!

It's kind of a challenging time, but if you give us a head's up of dates we can probably pull some folks together. There was a discussion here not long ago about arranging a group buy, so there is some interest.

P.

Come to the Yukon for beginning of July

We could definitely arrange a Blackfly Demo day or weekend in Portland. I've love to try some of the other designs. I have an Option and it's the boat I paddle every weekend, but I'm the only Blackfly owner in our club. But the old Royalex canoes are wearing out and people are starting to get interested. You'd probably be here sometime in July. The White Salmon, Clackamas and North Santiam are the summer runs. Choosing the Clack or N. Santiam would get a wider skill range to try the boats. I can be your contact for organizing, so let's keep in touch.

If you do cross the border check your paper work requirements. Not a problem, I do it all the time, just the usual bureaucracy.
I would probably chat with Elli, he inadvertently became the expert
It has more to do with "doing a course" than with bringing hulls across.
e

If you do cross the border check your paper work requirements

No kidding! I've crossed the Canadian border a dozen or so times in the last three years with a variety of boats, hopefully having 15 on the truck won't throw up too many red flags.

Just to clarify, the only dates I have in my calendar are the GC trip in the beginning of June and needing to be back east by the first week of September for King of New York. Everything else is fair game.

Milkman, I will definitely be in contact with you. Would love to work with the Portland/Seattle crews, and I think July is a realistic timeframe.

If anyone wants to contact me on the Facebook, you can hit me up at the Blackfly Canoe page or at my own: https://www.facebook.com/cmloomis" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I live in Sacramento, and I would be very interested in paddling an Octane 91 during a weekend. I would say that the bulk of California whitewater canoeists live in or near the main Northern California population centers of Sacramento and San Francisco, and the main river for them is the South Fork of the American, near Sacramento. There are a few hard-core boaters who live in far north California, near Oregon as well, I'm not speaking for them. Right now, we are in a drought, with South Fork American releases now down to Saturdays only, from full weekend releases in summer, but hopefully there will be more water next year, with full weekend releases.

If you could demo during a weekend day on the So. Fork of American, Coloma to Greenwood Creek, which is easy Class II, has dam release flows, and a good practice run to get the feel of a boat, I believe that would be ideal. I don't think you're going to get too many California boaters who want to drive to Portland, OR, so it would be good to have a California venue in addition to Portland.

I could serve as an organizer of listserve posts for the POST canoe club, and the Gold Country Paddlers . That would cover most of the canoeists in Sacramento/San Francisco.

You should just show up at any of the california recreational releases and rip it up and get a good bit of exposure. For CA, there's usually a good sized crowd. It'll be 99.9% kayakers, but if you make it look fun on class IV, and I know you can, they'll be putty in your hands.

-North Mokelumne -Tiger creek releases are usually in may- june.
-North Feather releases are VERY poular, and are the last weekends in July, Aug, and the big (our biggest) festival is in sept. The Tobin section would be a blast in a good oc!

Might also contact Keith Miller at CA Canoe and Kayak and try to set up a "demo days", though it'll probably only attract lake paddlers..

Cheeks wrote:

If you do cross the border check your paper work requirements

No kidding! I've crossed the Canadian border a dozen or so times in the last three years with a variety of boats, hopefully having 15 on the truck won't throw up too many red flags.

Just to clarify, the only dates I have in my calendar are the GC trip in the beginning of June and needing to be back east by the first week of September for King of New York. Everything else is fair game.

Milkman, I will definitely be in contact with you. Would love to work with the Portland/Seattle crews, and I think July is a realistic timeframe.

If anyone wants to contact me on the Facebook, you can hit me up at the Blackfly Canoe page or at my own: https://www.facebook.com/cmloomis" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cheeks, crossing the border with 15 boats, will, unless there are a few of you travelling together, bound to raise some red flags. Realistically you can expect to cross the border easily with about 3-4 boats per person, after that, the canada customs agent will start to get suspicious. 15 boats will most certainly raise a red flag and you better have some good answers for any questions they might throw at you. Without paperwork, you definitely risk being turned back or to spend a lot of time at the border sorting things out.
While working in engineering, I travelled extensively with lots of equipment and I found that using an ATA Carnet http://www.atacarnet.com/what-carnet" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
is an easy, albeit not cheap way to cross borders with what are considered commercial samples. Not sure if there are cheaper options.
Since Vancouver is not far from Northern WA, you might also consider running clinics on rivers in Northern Washington State, there are a few that are only an hour or so from the border. Would wor for paddlers from the SeaTac area as well.

TGG!

I think Eli's issue was the teaching aspect and whether he was entitled to work in Canada? Either way, if there are cross-border hassles I'm sure folks from Vancouver we be happy to come down and meet in N WA on the Skykomish or something, possibly in conjunction with the Paddle Trails club there.

P.

The problem when crossing the border with 15 boats, particularly if you are on your onw, is that customs will thing that you will want to sell them. You will be questioned very hard and may be refused entry if you answer the wrong way. You may have to pay some sort of security to ensure that you either bring them back or, if not, the applicable duties and taxes are paid. Eli probably travelled with his family and maybe 3-4 boats, so no issues there, but trying to cross the border with a honking trailer that is loaded is a different story. You might also ask Jim Coffery or contact the folks from World Class Academy, they do this on a regular basis and may be able to offer some advice.

TGG!

The problem was "teaching for money". He had about 5 hulls on a trailer, not exceptional, I have travelled crossed with as many but, in a standard search, they Goggled his name. His web site listed that he was on tour, also travelling to British Columbia, Canada and was "looking for interested students" and that closed it for him. He was working for money.

Same as working in the U.S.A. for Canadians, there are a few hoops to jump thru, paper work; not difficult but sitting at the border is a difficult place to do it.
I think that there were a few other issues as he was travelling with the family, kids passport and such.


Too bad, we were really looking forward to his visit. He was going to stay with us and I was going to show him around. Fortunately I had lined up his course much earlier in the year in Portland, OR, with Milkman and others. It was definitely worth it.
In the end the B.c. paddlers travelled to Washington and took the course.

All this sort of relates to Cheeks, and it sort of doesn't.
Looking forward to his visit, just keeping an eye out for bureaucracy and their paper work.

"Did I tell you about the time I travelled to Costa Rica to paddle.... without my passport. Oops"
(ended well)

I've crossed the border with a lot of boats before. I'm not super worried about it, we'll cross that bridge (or not, depending on how it goes) when we get there.

Thanks for all the info, I'll be in contact with some of you familiar plural as we start putting dates on the calendars. In the meantime, if you guys have clubs or organizations with message boards and Facebook groups, shoot me a link so I can get it all organized

Cheers!