Jackson Karma L vs River Elf Storm Chaser M - help me pick
Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:30 pm
So, I've tried and don't care for the Cascade and am planning on a different boat. I've read all the postings here and narrowed to these two. I can't find anyone who has paddled both of them.
About me. I'm 46, c-boating since 16, active wildwater racer roughly 96-04, mainly mellow family boating since (class 2-3, like French Broad Section 9), and recently back into more interesting paddling. Always paddled a Gyramax - fun runs were stuff like Upper Gauley/Daddys Creek/Chattooga IV, harder runs were like North Chickamauga/Cain Creek, Caney Fork, North Fork French Broad, Russell Fork. All in Gyramax. Local fun run now is Johns Creek. I'm about 175 lbs and 5'7".
I have a recently bought Viper C1 that feels right at home and paddles without having to think about it - different than my Gyramax but equally at home to paddle. In contrast, I don't like the Cascade hull - too chunky, feels like it squats no matter the saddle position, no faster turning than Gyramax and does not like to lean to turn - wallowing would be a good description for it, not remotely crisp - it feels like it would bash through anything on a low water run but overall I don't like it. I also have a Howler OC-2 I paddle with my kids that I like a lot after passing a Probe 14 on to my brother. I suspect it is fair to say I like some edge and some carving.
The River Elf Storm Chaser is appealing as it looks like good moderate hull, it is light, it is designed as a c1 with a narrower bow and wide spot at your back, and I appreciate the outfitting flexibility you easily get with a glass c1 - lots of flexibility in saddle and strap/bracing attachment. I will do runs at very low water (typically a bit lower than the American Whitewater recommendations), but suspect the boat is pretty tough - after all I trained and raced our wildwater c2 on the Loisach in Garmisch and it survived the hits, albeit with some patches after some pounding on the much more fragile boat. I grew up paddling in Alabama and am familiar with the Sand Mountain runs that the designers developed the boat for, and they are not unlike my typical runs.
The Jackson Karma seems like a very popular C1 conversion. I've read all I can on it here. I know some have M and some have L. ClassVBoats was ambivalent on his L, the great gonzo really likes his M, and BMille really likes his L. I like the wide 28" width of the L and would aim this way to be a little more conservative. While it has less edge, the flat planing hull appears to give some edge, and it also allows for a fairly flat area where your knees go, which I also like. I don't know if I'd try the Jackson C1 kit or not - I'd consider it but would lean towards doing my own. I suspect this boat would be tougher than Storm Chaser as well as more forgiving in steep drops.
I would paddle it on my local Johns Creek as well as other similar runs, and probably some bigger water runs like the New and Gauley (though I may take the Viper on those instead). I like a 6" or so seat height depending on the hull shape - I can go lower in a flatter hull and need more in a rounded hull.
It would be great if I could paddle both, but that is complicated at best. Cost is certainly a difference in the two, but as you can tell I don't buy a new boat very often, and as such cost is not a prime factor - my sweet wife is encouraging me to pick whatever I want.
If you have paddled both boats, I would really appreciate your input. If you've paddled one of the boats and have anything to add to the above, I'd appreciate that also.
Thanks, Russell/wildwaterc2
About me. I'm 46, c-boating since 16, active wildwater racer roughly 96-04, mainly mellow family boating since (class 2-3, like French Broad Section 9), and recently back into more interesting paddling. Always paddled a Gyramax - fun runs were stuff like Upper Gauley/Daddys Creek/Chattooga IV, harder runs were like North Chickamauga/Cain Creek, Caney Fork, North Fork French Broad, Russell Fork. All in Gyramax. Local fun run now is Johns Creek. I'm about 175 lbs and 5'7".
I have a recently bought Viper C1 that feels right at home and paddles without having to think about it - different than my Gyramax but equally at home to paddle. In contrast, I don't like the Cascade hull - too chunky, feels like it squats no matter the saddle position, no faster turning than Gyramax and does not like to lean to turn - wallowing would be a good description for it, not remotely crisp - it feels like it would bash through anything on a low water run but overall I don't like it. I also have a Howler OC-2 I paddle with my kids that I like a lot after passing a Probe 14 on to my brother. I suspect it is fair to say I like some edge and some carving.
The River Elf Storm Chaser is appealing as it looks like good moderate hull, it is light, it is designed as a c1 with a narrower bow and wide spot at your back, and I appreciate the outfitting flexibility you easily get with a glass c1 - lots of flexibility in saddle and strap/bracing attachment. I will do runs at very low water (typically a bit lower than the American Whitewater recommendations), but suspect the boat is pretty tough - after all I trained and raced our wildwater c2 on the Loisach in Garmisch and it survived the hits, albeit with some patches after some pounding on the much more fragile boat. I grew up paddling in Alabama and am familiar with the Sand Mountain runs that the designers developed the boat for, and they are not unlike my typical runs.
The Jackson Karma seems like a very popular C1 conversion. I've read all I can on it here. I know some have M and some have L. ClassVBoats was ambivalent on his L, the great gonzo really likes his M, and BMille really likes his L. I like the wide 28" width of the L and would aim this way to be a little more conservative. While it has less edge, the flat planing hull appears to give some edge, and it also allows for a fairly flat area where your knees go, which I also like. I don't know if I'd try the Jackson C1 kit or not - I'd consider it but would lean towards doing my own. I suspect this boat would be tougher than Storm Chaser as well as more forgiving in steep drops.
I would paddle it on my local Johns Creek as well as other similar runs, and probably some bigger water runs like the New and Gauley (though I may take the Viper on those instead). I like a 6" or so seat height depending on the hull shape - I can go lower in a flatter hull and need more in a rounded hull.
It would be great if I could paddle both, but that is complicated at best. Cost is certainly a difference in the two, but as you can tell I don't buy a new boat very often, and as such cost is not a prime factor - my sweet wife is encouraging me to pick whatever I want.
If you have paddled both boats, I would really appreciate your input. If you've paddled one of the boats and have anything to add to the above, I'd appreciate that also.
Thanks, Russell/wildwaterc2