How MITH can save tandem whitewater canoeing.

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pmp
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How MITH can save tandem whitewater canoeing.

Post by pmp » Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:18 am

Canoeists are a traditional bunch... some might say obstinate, in the face of change. When it comes to canoeing, we’re slow to accept anything that might challenge our knowledge or lack thereof. The exception of course is that we all welcome a new canoe.
But opening your mind to MITH will change the way you learn or teach canoeing.

The rest of this technique article and a photo are on my tech. tips page.
http://paddlepointers.com/Tech_tip_techniques.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'd be pleased to hear what you think.
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Re: How MITH can save tandem whitewater canoeing.

Post by Pierre LaPaddelle » Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:57 am

pmp wrote:Canoeists are a traditional bunch... some might say obstinate, in the face of change. When it comes to canoeing, we’re slow to accept anything that might challenge our knowledge or lack thereof. . .
First, Paul, your MITH concept is excellent. I will use it in our next course. Thanks for many solid technical contributions to our sport.

That said, your initial comment, quoted above, is what caught my eye, and -- looking around at our local paddling community -- I think you've hit a large, almost-immovable nail on it's grey and balding head.

I'd LOVE to see more reactions to that statement from other local paddling communities. Fire away, folks!

Rick
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Re: How MITH can save tandem whitewater canoeing.

Post by pmp » Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:07 am

Hey Rick thanks for the comments. Glad you like it. I try to be subtle with this self promotion stuff, so if people are finding the videos and tech tips helpful, goal accomplished. Next video is on rolling... it's going to change how you roll, I bet.
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Re: How MITH can save tandem whitewater canoeing.

Post by pmp » Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:10 am

we're all guilty of that to some degree.
Last edited by pmp on Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How MITH can save tandem whitewater canoeing.

Post by Paddle Power » Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:06 am

Let the fun begin.
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Re: How MITH can save tandem whitewater canoeing.

Post by atcq » Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:14 pm

It's about as intuitive as it gets for learning initially and a pretty solid platform to advance from. I've been an ORCKA moving water canoe instructor for years, so I'm heavily indoctrinated, but I can't see myself teaching any other skill set to begin with.

As an aside, the tilt-upstream technique strikes me as odd in anything other than a creeking context. For one, it's always simpler to simply tilt into your turns and occasionally to the offside for 'on-a-dime' eddy entries. Second, you've obviously got a greater risk of wrapping when you're tilting upstream. Different contexts as you say, just seemed weird seeing the conflicting ideas side-by-side in your link.

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Re: How MITH can save tandem whitewater canoeing.

Post by pmp » Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:12 pm

yeah i thought it was pretty funny that they appeared that way on the website. The reader has to note that one technique (tilt upstream) is for creeking (solo plastic flat bottom boats) while MITH is for tandem. i promise to be more clear about who the technique is for in the future.
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PIK your eddy

Post by yarnellboat » Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:40 am

My name being what it is, I'll always be partial to PAT.

On one hand, I think MITH is just re-naming the same ideas: momentum is power, initiate is angle. On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with that, because different framing will click better for different people.

A big problem I see with tandem novices is the lack of planning and communicating about which eddy to catch, so the details of how they'd implement catching an eddy are too-little-too-late from the get-go! So, I just made this one up right now..

"PIK your eddy": Prepare, Initiate, Knees.

Prepare is looking ahead and talking about what eddy to catch and how to catch it (e.g. "This one will be on the draw side for the bow paddler, and we'll weight our right knees.").

Initiate is putting together the angle and momentum to get you there as planned.

Knees is weighting the inside knees to tilt the hull as you cross the eddy line.

I like this because 1) it emphasizes the planning and communication that this often missed, and 2) "put your weight on your right knee" is a very concrete how-to instruction that people can follow. I think the planning & communication is important to build into what we teach, because that's really what people will benefit from the most when they take it outside of a course.

The "initiate" part is the details an instructor would spend time teaching during a course, but "PIK your eddy" gives people the big idea tools that they need after the course.

I'm sure others could invent more variations, and I get that maybe it's good for instructors to have only a few go-to ideas for consistency, but I just thought I'd challenge myself to make one up right now, just for fun, and I came up with "PIK your eddy".

Pat

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Re: How MITH can save tandem whitewater canoeing.

Post by pmp » Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:44 pm

you bring up some good points, but.... :)

"Prepare is looking ahead and talking about what eddy to catch and how to catch it (e.g. "This one will be on the draw side for the bow paddler, and we'll weight our right knees.").

-at an intro level they don't need to know what an eddy looks like. less info. gets them on the water faster.

Initiate is putting together the angle and momentum to get you there as planned.
-angle? what angle? that is why we don't try to teach angle anymore, angle is not as relevant as the arc the boat is on.

Knees is weighting the inside knees to tilt the hull as you cross the eddy line.

-well knees refers to what they are doing... it's what the boat is doing that counts. i can push down with my knee and still not tilt much, or enough.
if the boat is tilted, great. then add tips to make it tilt more.

certainly fun to discuss and has kept me from real work this morning:) although i suppose being a canoe instructor, this is real work. nice.
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Re: How MITH can save tandem whitewater canoeing.

Post by FullGnarlzOC » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:02 pm

pmp wrote:
Canoeists are a traditional bunch... some might say obstinate, in the face of change. When it comes to canoeing, we’re slow to accept anything that might challenge our knowledge or lack thereof. . .

First, Paul, your MITH concept is excellent. I will use it in our next course. Thanks for many solid technical contributions to our sport.

That said, your initial comment, quoted above, is what caught my eye, and -- looking around at our local paddling community -- I think you've hit a large, almost-immovable nail on it's grey and balding head.

I'd LOVE to see more reactions to that statement from other local paddling communities. Fire away, folks!




From a teaching stand point - "MITH focuses on what the canoe is doing, not what stroke the paddlers should use. Coaching canoeists through their first eddy turns becomes simple." I agree with this in some respects. When I am coaching progressing paddlers - I pay very close attention to the thought process that is going through the persons head to make sure that they understand what is happening - what the boat is doing, and what they are doing - to interact with the water. At the early stages in the game, while you want ensure that new paddlers are building good habits (good technique), the most important part to me is shaping how they think! Learning a boat and learning whitewater is not the easiest. What makes one coach more effective than another is the ability to recognize thought process - reinforce good things, while shedding light on what can be done differently and why - in a way that is easy to understand, and sits with them after the day is done. Not every paddler is the same, not every paddler learns the same. Coaching at times feels as dynamic as paddling itself!

"Very good! Your stroke through that hole was perfectly timed! Remember that feeling right before you hit the eddy? Its like you knew that you needed to throw a cross stroke to keep momentum turning into the eddy? I could see it in your face. The key is to throw that cross stroke when you know you need it ! build that confidence!"
*short boat perspective*


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Re: How MITH can save tandem whitewater canoeing.

Post by Yukon » Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:38 am

There are aspects of MITH i like. I used PAT a long time ago but switched to APT- Angle Power Tilt and it works well when people use it. I found when I had power first that was what everyone focused on and people always used too much, so I switched

Angle- Perpendicular to the Eddy Wall- you want to go through as directly as possible. 90 degrees

Power- you have to match the Power to the size of the eddy wall, fence, bump, line- and timing of the last stroke in is a key.
Power does not mean speed which people often confuse.

Tilt- as you come across the line you need to tilt into your turn and hold until turn is complete. just like a bird.

thats the basics that gets folks an eddy turn really quick,

Refinements- Angle as you approach the eddy line the stern paddle intiates the turn with either a hard J (or pry) or Hard Foward (finish with stern draw if needed)

Bow paddler plants stationary draw or xbow draw and then refine that to when and where. When - you feel the boat turning the direction you want to go (or when the river tells you to plant-if you are listening) Where- in the eddy based on where you want to turn.

once they have it all nailed I will introduce offside tilts for catching smaller eddies.

I think all in line with MITH just a little different wrapping. I just went and reread your article and that is pretty much what I do on flatwater before getting to the river. its all about the building blocks and more paddle less talk
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Re: How MITH can save tandem whitewater canoeing.

Post by pmp » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:52 pm

a couple thoughts...
"Angle- Perpendicular to the Eddy Wall- you want to go through as directly as possible. 90 degrees"
means the beginner has to be able to recognize what an eddy wedge is. Plus that the turning momentum is more important than the actual angle of the canoe as it crosses the wedge.

"Power- you have to match the Power to the size of the eddy wall, fence, bump, line- and timing of the last stroke in is a key."
at the end of the sentence "timing is the key" MITH removes the need for timing.
I realize there is certainly more than one way to teach eddy turns, i remember teaching eddy turns using several techniques over the years. it just seems that the Paddle Canada MITH technique gets people having fun faster.

great to be having all this discussion
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Re: How MITH can save tandem whitewater canoeing.

Post by Paddle Power » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:46 pm

I like the end of your statement "tilt into your turn and hold until turn is complete. just like a bird."

I find MITH is useful for getting tandem canoe to crave, be that following a meandering creek or manoeuvring in current.
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