C-Forum

As a 200+ lbs paddler, for a long time it seemed there were no new boats for us (no thanks Prelude, Zoom, Spark, Option, etc.).

Now I'm trying to compare the L'Edge & Octane 91 with Silverbirch's Rebel and Covert 10.5, Blackfly's Condor, and today I hear Esquif has a new T-Formex boat for larger paddlers, the Excite.

Nothing at all on Esquif's website, but apparently there's a video from Eli on FB?

Thanks if anyone has any info on the new Excite (or the Condor, Rebel or Covert 10.5) for a 230 lbs class III hack.

I've been happy in an Outrage and Ocoee (which I'm sadly getting too heavy for), but am looking for something new. I found the Octane 91 too much of tank to paddle with any grace on slalom-like stuff, so I'm hopeful about some of these new, longer big-boy boats.

Edit/Update - here's the Rapid Media article, it's a prototype scheduled for 2019, an edgy slalom kinda boat for 150 lbs +. Given it says 150+ and that it's aggressive without a lot of primary stability, I'm thinking it's more of a specialty boat that won't compare favourably to the plastic Condor, Covert 10.5 or Rebel for river running at 230 lbs.

The Excite may not be great for big people, just people who are bigger than small people?

https://www.rapidmedia.com/canoeroots/c ... -2018.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Cheers, Pat.

It’s the big boy version of the Extasy but in T-formex.

http://www.esquif.com/en/whitewater/extasy/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pat, I owned a Covert 10.5. It is a very stable and comfortable boat, not as edgy as a Rebel or Ocoee. The Condor for the 200 # plus crowd would be the most stable and playful of the plastic boats. I now own an Agent 88 and Octane 91. The Agent 88 is so much fun. It reminds me of some of the characteristics of an Ocoee, but more stable. It is fast for it's length. My weight is currently just around 200# for a reference. I paddle the 91 when the run is longer, so I can sit on the thwart and rest my ankles. If I was taller and a man I would still have the Covert 10.5 but it was hard for me to pick up and carry since I am short, older and female. The most common comment about the Rebel has been it goes fast, but no one has had one with thigh hooks carved enough so I could fit properly. My 2 cents.

Agent 88? Oh my, another one to think about?! Hadn't even heard of that one.

Without the chance to try any of these boats, I'd be shy about trusting the Rebel because it's quite narrow, so I don't know how stable it would be at my weight. Covert 10.5 and Condor seem like safe bets for a comfy, stable boat (but yeah, heavy), but I'm hoping they are more nimble than the Octane 91. I enjoy the edges of the Ocoee and Viper an dlike to be able to tilt my boat a bit. Hearing the Condor is likely more playful than the Covert helps!

Thanks Wendy. Hi Brian.

Edit/update - just read a review/description of the Condor, and Blackfly said something like "it is a boat made for people who like traditional river running moves and want boats like Outrages, Ocoees and Vipers." They named all the same hulls I named. So, who really knows if the boat's designers nailed what I like, but the boat's marketers/writers sure seem to be talking directly to me, so I'll give it serious consideration over the others.

I really want to paddle the Excite (and the Rebel), but I doubt I'd want to own it as a do-everything boat.

Or I guess I could lose some weight. Ug.

Pat.

Wendy,

I haven't seen specs, but the Agent 88 looks along the lines of something like an Option?

I never felt I could get an Option to settle down quite right for me, always seemed to be fighting it a bit (perhaps because I didn't fit in other people's outfitting), like "paddling a cork" as they say.

Can you compare the Agent 88 to an Option or Covert 9.3?

Thanks, Pat.

Pat, my guess is you would like the Convert better than the Option.

Originally I was assuming I'd have to go Covert 10.5 (though it sounds less playful than the Condor, so drops down my considerations). But now I'm wondering how the 9.3 (or Agent 88) handles higher weight?

Reality it is I'd probably have to buy any of these boats without being able to try them first, so even though I might like the Covert 9.3 better than the Option (not saying much), it would be a gamble. To actually drop the money on something I've never paddled, I think I'd have to err on the side of stable/comfy like the Condor (and just trust that it's more lively than the Octank 91).

It's too bad, because maybe I'd love the Excite, Agent 88, Rebel or Covert 9.3, but at 230 lbs and not paddling much, I don't think that I would gamble on any of these without trying them first.

Pat.

Pat you check out the Octane line. Big Al is rocking the 91 on the Upper Yough and a newbie was in the 85 and was really happy (moved down from 91 at 200lb). Condor might be an option too... once I get in it I'll post on it... The Option I agree is more twitchy, more so than the Octane but the Option is a good creeker that takes some time to adjust to. Demo best ya can!

Pat, The Agent 88 has the nimbleness of the Covert 9.3, but not the top sustained speed it can reach. The Agent 88 handles like an Ocoee in the front half and more stability in the stern. Attainements are easy in the Agent 88 and Covert 9.3, 10.5 that you usually don't do in these short boats. Sabrina posted that 90 KG is the max for the Excite. While I may hop in one I know I am too heavy for it, but if I was younger I might buy one anyway. IF you want a more nimble boat than the 91 and won't miss it's stellar stability the Agent 88 is a good choice.

Hi Pat,
I'll throw in my two cents. i know you're not looking for a composite boat, but if you're not going to be paddling wet mountain bike trails, the 20/20 by Millbrook Boats would be perfect for your weight. And of course it does everything faster, lighter, and drier than any of those other boats mentioned. Just ask me, I'll tell you! It's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Thanks Kaz. Composite Vipers are pretty common in Western Canada, so I'm not too scared of the abuse composites can take - most of the composite boats are still trucking along long after the Royalex boats have got beaten up and gone soft. The durability of HDPE boats is appealing, but the weight is not, so something to think about. Thanks for your 2 cents, Pat.

Pat,
There is a 20/20 near Calgary, Alberta. Not sure how far that is for you, but I'm sure it's owner would let you try it.

Pat, I've got a 9.3 and I'm pushing 230. No issues handling the weight. I moved to this from a L'edge also carries the heft.

Hi Doug,

Thanks for the comment. It helps to hear from others in the same weight class who are actually paddling one of the boats.

I do consider the L'Edge a possibility, but also checking around to see what's new since where I am I've never laid eyes on a Silverbirch or Millbrook, and the Condor is new. Just trying to catch up, and surprised there's a quite a few good choices!

Good to know you're liking the 9.3. In terms of their length & width, the 9.3. and the L'Edge are very close, so I imagine fairly similar to paddle. Any major differences?

My regards that nice little stretch of water in Minden, Pat.

With a top-heavy build at 6' 1" a 31" inseam and 190+ lbs, I've been paddling the Octane 91 on everything for the past couple of years. For perspective, this summer it was just so good on a (10~11K cfs) Main Salmon self support trip with 40+ lbs of camping gear. A couple of weeks later, on hades's canyon with daily flows between 15K and 20K cfs, the 91 was a blast as well.

My new boat though, like Wendy, is the Silverbirch Agent 88, which is an uncannily intuitive, forgiving and yet nimble boat. In terms of paddler size the Agent seems to nicely fill the gap between the Octane 91 and the several smaller short plastic boats available: L Edge / Option / Octane 85 / Covert 9.3.

Agent 88 gunnel to gunnel stability seems quite similar to the Viper 12 and a look at midship hull profile and width between the two suggests that in this case form follows function pretty well. Bow to stern feel is good but harder for me to describe; plenty of bow and stern support like the Octane/ Option, but with the sharper point the bow seems a bit easier to deflect to the side of minor curling waves and between rocks. With the heavy tumblehome, paddling the Agnent evokes the Shacho, which is such a good boat, particularly for less rock-prone, repair-avoidant, top heavy paddlers.

No experience with the Condor, Covert 10.5, Hou Drop Zone, Rebel 11, or the 20/20; so much to look forward to!