C1 Creeking & Twin-Pin Rescue.

[TheKrikkitWars]

Vid Here.

Just saw this on another forum, where the poster wanted to know "What are peoples thoughts on the guy that goes straight to"GO" in the rescue????"

Personally, I don't agree with the "don't put yourself in any danger" idea of dealing with rescues now so popular... How about you?

[busterblue]

What are peoples thoughts on the guy that goes straight to"GO" in the rescue????

Are they referring to the guy who walks out on the ledge to get the kids free?

[Riverken]

What river is that? It's beautiful.

I'm going to have nightmares over this, for sure.

[TheKrikkitWars]

What are peoples thoughts on the guy that goes straight to"GO" in the rescue????

Are they referring to the guy who walks out on the ledge to get the kids free?

Yeah, [it came from a UK forum] one of the major problems with having a highly developed scheme of instruction for all aspects of paddling is that people who don't paddle all that regularly start to take teaching points ("don't put yourself in danger as a rescuer" in this case) as gospel, rather than the flexible common sense advice it should be.

Gotta ask how in blazes that pin came about though...

[french erick]

Yeah, [it came from a UK forum] one of the major problems with having a highly developed scheme of instruction for all aspects of paddling is that people who don't paddle all that regularly start to take teaching points ("don't put yourself in danger as a rescuer" in this case) as gospel, rather than the flexible common sense advice it should be.

Not just paddling Josh.... I've been making this very point for years in climbing.
Best practice is only good if you know other practices, can compare and contrast them, and do what is the best possible in a given context. It is terrible if the person only knows that and something happens that is not covered in the "book".
I've seen a newly qualified, very good at best practice, lad going to tatters because he dropped his belay plate on a multi-pitch trad route.

I do not know enough about white water to comment on the pin however. I would like to hear from the veteran paddlers, the ones who have seen fashions come and go, dogmas being proferred and then proved wrong comment. I would find it very interesting. Ta in advance.

[philcanoe]

Way to man up....

This is exactly how I judge my paddling partners. I'll boat with a lot of people on the easy, but when stepping it up the group has to have this mentality. While this guy was entering a dangerous situation, IMO it was not that much a risk for him. I might have walked in perhaps, feeling the bottom with my feet instead of stepping blindly. You certainly don't want to make a situation worst, but undue caution might have resulted in a different outcome. Not to sound melodramatic, but in thirty years I have seen a lot of good done by just such action.

(from personal experience)

My take if you enter upon such a situation, and there are this many people as there happened to be. Immediately start working on the next plan, do not assume the first will work. It takes too long to get a system ready, and then it may be too late. We had such a situation, where a tree was in the boat (cockpit). Not knowing this and appearing to be simple broach, we tried to free from the most apparent logical side. Only to find out the true nature of this situation, and later free the boat from the other side. Unfortunately it took to long to setup the second system, due a variety of circumstances. Point being that there were enough onlookers here also, people would could have been getting a second plan going. It could have been as simple as lowering one or two people down on a tethered boat, or up on a tethered boat, or maybe perhaps tossing the filming guy on the rock a rope. Just start working on plan two or three, without interfering on the current one. Seconds matter in more way than one.

[KNeal]

I believe it was Les Beschdel who said that the only good rescue is a successful rescue (something to that effect). This video clearly demonstrates that statement. Thanks for sharing this, Krikket.

[jerm]

Vid Here.

Just saw this on another forum, where the poster wanted to know "What are peoples thoughts on the guy that goes straight to"GO" in the rescue????"

Personally, I don't agree with the "don't put yourself in any danger" idea of dealing with rescues now so popular... How about you?

I personnally think that the guy walking straight in the river has taken useless risks: you have two examples of whitewater rescue approach in this vid. One is more dangerous than the other. In french we call this "approche échelonnée", which could be traduced by scaled implication i think... meaning that the more you go down that scale (talk, throw, give an object, swim to the victim), the more risks you take. The kayaker on the right is giving his paddle to a victim, which allows more time to the rescue (maybe setting up a quick lifeline, or planning a river walking duo). Could the one who walks straight in the river have done the same? I think so, judging by the distance between the shore and the victim. It could have worked really well, without implying taking more risks. Did he try those first? I don't think so.

The first goal of a rescue is to help the victim without making things worst, which everyone has heard thousands of times. I agree that somehow, in certain cases, you HAVE to put yourself in danger, but you do so after having no other options, and only if you're OK with it. It's the basics of rescue, wether you are in a pool, a river, or a car crash. Not agreeing to the "don't put yourself in any danger" principle is not an option, it's an obligation in any kind of rescue.

...While this guy was entering a dangerous situation, IMO it was not that much a risk for him. I might have walked in perhaps, feeling the bottom with my feet instead of stepping blindly.

This would have been a great option too, taking 30 seconds more to walk safely and feel the rocks under your feet could have eliminated many risks.

But krikkit you're quite right : common sense prevails, and too many people seem to forget that, always trying to rush in a situation like that.

[Smurfwarrior]

Time is a serious issue, this guy manned up and saved the day. No amount of armchair quarterbacking will prove anything. When the $hit hits the fan, like serious $hit, people act ways they wouldn't assume and sometimes surprise themselves... both in the "freeze up and do nothing" and "rush in and save the day" way. Happens in combat a lot.

Ref how the pins happened, a piece of wood across that slot (but submerged) could have been the cause. Just a guess.

Great vid Crikket

[marclamenace]

Ref how the pins happened, a piece of wood across that slot (but submerged) could have been the cause. Just a guess.

My very humble take on this: if this was the case then the swimmer might have been really taking a big risk. Strainers can be among the worst of threats and a third trapped dude would probably have been too much for the others to take care of in a timely fashion. I have to agree with jerm that this is the last thing to consider, after trying other stuff but still somehow quickly enough... (!)

But then, another big factor is the water volume here I think. There wasn't such a high flow in total, and in such a case a good swimmer can do a lot. This is a big issue, just like when you have to decide between swimming with your feet high or the classic "stand up and grab your boat"! In fact, in a relatively low flow pin I know that you can be pretty desperate stuck in your boat with your legs under the deck, while a standing person close by could get you out in no time, making you look stupid but that's just the nature of the situation... 'Been there!

So the camera gets on site a bit late for us to see if the first swimmer did have the chance to weight the situation and think "flow is low enough, not such a strong hydraulic either, dude looks pinned enough he can't move anymore... gotta go for it and reach them by upstream, swimming". If he did it was probably (again to my whatever's worth opinion) a good and wise one. If not a good and ballsy one (hey, it worked!)

A guy drowned in 2006 around here and the final report I read stated the the rescue has been much too long done because all the persons in place where too much into the "don't take any risk for yourself" thing also.

Great vid krikkit; can't learn enough from looking at such situations live.

[Larry Horne]

that's the kind of guy I like to boat with. not the one over there setting up a z-drag

[Creeker]

Break it downIf I was running to that spot like the guy 1) he should have had a rope in his hand 2) he should have attached it to his release belt in 10-15 seconds. loop it around the tree in the background 3) self belay or throw the end to the guy taking the video to be lowered/supported wading in there. There is ALWAYS time enough for this amount of basic setup and gives a way to climb back out of a sieve or strainer pin. Just being able to mildly steady yourself allows you to walk around in more crazy water than pictured.