C-Forum

I'm learning to roll, and am having problems. I haven't had any instruction, but I've read Thrill of the Paddle, and watched Philip Prince's videos.

I've got some footage here, and I would appreciate some tips. Be gentle, please!

Cheers.

http://youtu.be/rvQ4isqFhY4

Your bringing your head up too fast / trying to bring your body over the boat too soon. For me, I try to knee myself in the face (to me this is a better mental image than "hip snap"), then I try to slam my head to the river bottom. This helps keep the momentum of the boat rotating upward and also helps your head be the last thing out of the water, which is key.

Also, keep your t-grip hand down. In the first roll attempt you brought your t-grip hand up so that your paddle was nearly vertical. When you roll, your t-grip hand should be the first thing to cross the gunwale, then your head, as close to the front airbag as possible.

I am by no means as good of a roll instructor as the Fur Trapper, but here is a video of me rolling an OCtane 91, and you can kind of see what I am talking about by driving my head to the bottom. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBlh47WvUs4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hope that helps!

A great start. Try to think of the whole thing as one roll but also as first a hip action followed by paddle action, without a pause between the two parts.
You need a smooth transition to the low brace, sweeping the paddle a little towards the bow of the canoe as you keep your head down and pull or slide your upper body over the front air.

Your 3, 4, and 5th rolls were getting close.

It's helpful to try a couple of other things. Have someone hold and move your paddle as you roll. Try partial rolls, going over more and more onto a low brace and practicing the low brace part first (i.e. sweeping the paddle a little towards the bow of the canoe as you keep your head down and pull or slide your upper body over the front air), then try the full upside down.

Best of luck

Good job, some of those look really close! I learned just by reading Thrill of the Paddle too - at least now there's videos and forums! Speaking of the forum, search all the threads on advice about rolling and you'll quickly get a sense of the common mistakes/advice: in other words, keep your shoulders/face square to the bottom and bring your head in last. You'll notice how frequently that last bit gets repeated!

I'd suggest you think about your lower body - it looks like your starting on your paddle while your hull has no rolling momentum at all. You need to get your knees & thighs working on the hull a bit before you go for it with the paddle and just muscle-up a big brace. Push with your uphill knee, pull with your onside thigh.

Half the battle with all this advice is just finding the description/mantra that clicks for you. Some advice that helped me was a jacknife analogy - you're trying to close like a jacknife: half bring yourself back into the boat, and half bringing the boat underneath you.

A common problem I've seen is as far as getting the hull going is with outfitting - when people go to transfer some power from their legs to their hull or straps, their knees are slipping around too much. I assume you're in a bulkhead, so maybe that's not it, but take a look at your outfitting and ask yourself if you're well-connected to the boat for transferring that energy cleanly. Just a thought.

Pat.

I try to slam my head to the river bottom.

Well said. Here is a frame from one of Milkman's videos. (I'm on the way up).

busterblue wrote:

I try to slam my head to the river bottom.

Well said. Here is a frame from one of Milkman's videos. (I'm on the way up).

roll.jpg

At the point in the roll that is captured by the photo, where is your paddle? Performing a low brace?

That is an awesome instructional image of a good roll! Paddle, what paddle? If you can roll your hull like that and keep your body rotated and your head down like that, you'll barely need that little boost from the paddle to put yourself back in!

Search the forum for photos and videos of failed rolls, and compare what they do with their heads to the above photo, and you'll see what people are talking about! A little time on YouTube and should be able to spot the difference between good, quick, easy rolls and ones that are more of a struggle.

Pat.

Search the forum for photos and videos of failed rolls, and compare what they do with their heads to the above photo, and you'll see what people are talking about! A little time on YouTube and should be able to spot the difference between good, quick, easy rolls and ones that are more of a struggle.

I have done a bit of this, and now that I have footage of myself rolling (thanks to my daughter), I can compare. When I saw the footage, I had no idea that I was getting the boat onto its primary stability, cause it FEELS so different to how it LOOKS.

And that is one of the big problems: the difference between how it feels and how it looks. I think that's where on-the-water instruction will come in handy (only a few more weeks to wait). Plus, the water here is getting cold (10-15*C/ 50-60*F) and cause I don't have a dry suit, my persistence is fading.

At the point in the roll that is captured by the photo, where is your paddle? Performing a low brace?

It's a sloppy low brace roll. I didn't manage to get my paddle to the surface, but the roll worked because of throwing my head down.

If you want to work on roll skills -- without getting underwater -- practice low bracing. Go slow, without slapping the water. Keep your shaft-elbow bent about 90 degrees. Get your t-grip hand in the water. See if you can get your face wet. Feel what it's like to tilt the boat with your lower body (lifting your onside knee and pushing down with the offside knee).

Yeah, in hindsight looking at others' videos isn't that useful: there's a few that are clealry awesome rolls, and a few that clearly show common mistakes, but 90% are inconclusive - good-looking rolls that aren't completed, and poor form that gets up, so go figure. Most of us roll in that grey zone of imperfect rolls.

Anyway, searching the threads here and reading the miles of advice should convince you that's important to keep your face in the drink.

Good luck, Pat.

Here's one that would end better if she was focussed on keeping her head down:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59IOeR1-yuo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's one that would end better (or start better) if she got her body more rotated to the bottom and arched to the surface:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e2L3FrT ... =endscreen" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pat.

As long as you're in the pool, consider deflating your air bags to get the boat somewhat deeper in the water and practice until you are getting a better feel of what is effective. Your boat comes up really high and dry (and that's a good thing) but that height may be increasing the difficulty in developing your roll (boat's axis of rotation is higher than the surface of the water). With the boat deeper in the water, it will take less work to roll the boat (boat's axis is even with the surface of the water).

Good solid tip from KNeal on deflating airbags, can't add to it other than agree. Give it a try.

Now that's a tip I haven't heard before! I'll try it.

Just received Bob Foote's Open Canoe Roll DVD in time for some practice on the weekend!