New to the OC... advice is appreciated!!

terrierpike · Post by **terrierpike** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:05 pm

Hey everybody. I'm a raft guide/kayaker who has just gotten bored with butt-boating and recently sat (sorry, Kneeled)... in an open-boat for the first time and I'm hooked... I've been a raft-guide for years and guess I've just gotten used to the idea of a single blade as vastly superior to a double. I'm highly experienced on WW ( Class V in a raft, class IV kayaker ) but totally inexperienced in canoeing. I'll be at GAF this weekend looking for a boat, if anyone can help me choose, I'd welcome any advice. I'm 6'3" and about 210 lbs, give or take. I paddled a Zephyr and liked the way that felt, but I haven't been in any other OCs so I don't know what I'm missing. Thanks again! -Jeff

Mike W. · Post by **Mike W.** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:36 am

Paddle everything that anyone will let you get in.

Paddle Power · Post by **Paddle Power** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:29 pm

What kayak hulls have you paddled? That will give us an idea of the type of edges you like.

terrierpike · Post by **terrierpike** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:26 pm

Good question... I've paddled planing and displacement hulls, both have their advantages and disadvantages. If anything, I like planing hulls more, something a little edgier. Thanks for the response!

kabuki_blaze · Post by **kabuki_blaze** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:09 am

I am a big fan of the Bell Ocoee, you can demo it at the NOC for the day or just paddle it around for an hour. They typically have a lot of different OC-1s to try out..I really liked the detenator as well, but found the Ocoee to be more responsive and carved great, I am about your size plus 10-15 pounds...

I agree, try out as many boats as possible, believe me, you can easily chose the wrong boat if you are not careful..

oc1kev · Post by **oc1kev** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:39 pm

kabuki_blaze wrote:I am a big fan of the Bell Ocoee

I would reccommend something other than an Ocoee as your "first" open-boat. I had one from '95-'01 and I L-O-V-E-D that boat. But that boat was designed to do cartwheels in Hellhole on the river which bares it's name. If your J-stroke isn't as strong as your cross-stroke which isn't as strong as your onside or you're not 100% comfortable with an offside brace, you might have a tougher time with the Ocoee than with a little more forgiving hull design... condidering this would be your first open-boating season we're talking about.

also, open boat is fairly easy to learn your roll on a lake, but to learn your combat roll in something with such extreme rocker as the Ocoee, you will find your bow and stern tips will really catch the current as you're doing your set-up. It won't be easy.

For a "first" open boat... I'd try and buy something used and maybe a little beat-up that is a little less edgy... something you can tie up in a boulder garden or let ride down a shoot as you swim to the bank and not be all worried about it.

-there is a reason the definition of an open boat is "a banna-shaped water craft with a human sticking out the bottom of it"

I would definitely reccommend paddling an Ocoee if you have the chance. Frankie Hubbard really hit one out of the park with that design... but he also created the Probe for Mohawk IIRC and that is an equally excellent design, albeit a bit more forgiving. -if you can find an old Dagger Rival... I love that boat to death. I still paddle mine after 13 years...though it now has more glass and Kevlar patches than Royalex in it.

I'd look for an Outrage, a Probe 12, maybe an old Whitesel Decender... if you can find a dagger Rival, that would be an EXCELLENT first boat (my personal favorite design)

whatever you get, you're first boat should be a little beat up cuz you're gonna scrape it up, you're gonna float sideways into stuff, and you're GOING to swim... which means your Open Boat will be on it's own on more than one occasion your first season out. -you're gonna find your center or gravity is all kaddywankus, and it's going to take a season for you to reach out on your offside and really lean much further than you think you're comfortable with. A boat like the Ocoee will dunk you in a heartbeat. But... that boat IS a freekin blast to paddle.

-its lean-left-go-left... lean-right-go-right most of the time you're paddle is just there for small corrections, it's all in the way you lean it. Dam I'm really missing mine now...

~Kev

Todhunter · Post by **Todhunter** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:07 pm

kabuki_blaze wrote:I am a big fan of the Bell Ocoee, you can demo it at the NOC for the day or just paddle it around for an hour. They typically have a lot of different OC-1s to try out..I really liked the detenator as well, but found the Ocoee to be more responsive and carved great, I am about your size plus 10-15 pounds...

I agree, try out as many boats as possible, believe me, you can easily chose the wrong boat if you are not careful..

Are you saying I can rent one from NOC for a day to try out on the Nantahala?

Post by **sbroam** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:21 pm

I'm not sure of their current policies, but I have demoed a dozen or more boats at the NOC and don't ever recall paying when I tried them out between the Falls and the store. I took a Spark down from the top once and I can't remember for sure, but I might have paid for that one ($25?)

karstmaninaboat · Post by **karstmaninaboat** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:23 pm

Todhunter wrote:
kabuki_blaze wrote:I am a big fan of the Bell Ocoee, you can demo it at the NOC for the day or just paddle it around for an hour. They typically have a lot of different OC-1s to try out..I really liked the detenator as well, but found the Ocoee to be more responsive and carved great, I am about your size plus 10-15 pounds...

I agree, try out as many boats as possible, believe me, you can easily chose the wrong boat if you are not careful..
Are you saying I can rent one from NOC for a day to try out on the Nantahala?

Yes, but they don't rent them, they demo them. You need all of your own gear.

Todhunter · Post by **Todhunter** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:58 am

Very cool - this is something I will be doing next season for sure!

milkman · Post by **milkman** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:07 pm

Our paddling club (www.l-ccc.org) recently had a boat swap day where people traded boats every half hour or so as we made our way down a 8-mile run. The boats included: Esquif Prelude, Dagger Phantom, Dagger Rival, Bell Ocoee, Mad River Outrage and Outrage X, Evergreen Solito and a Mohawk Probe 11. All participants were experienced OC1 padders. The favorite boat was the Ocoee. Second favorite was the Probe 11. Of course, the vote wasn't unanimous. For instance, I myself liked the Prelude best, (but then it's my boat).

I think the fact that you're a class IV kayaker means you'll easily get used to any canoe design rather fast. So try as many as you can until one just feels right.

ncdavid · Post by **ncdavid** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:40 pm

He bought an Ovation. Already paddled it the USNWC. He's going to progress quickly.