converting rafter

[Jer12]

Hello.

I am a confident raft guide and class IV inflatable kayaker of Northern California rivers finding may way to whitewater canoeing.

I often kneel while paddling class 4 in an IK, and enjoy using a raft paddle in class 3. While guiding on the Trinity I got to see a few open canoes run some rapids on the Pigeon Point run. I have been fascinated ever since. No opportunity to try one yet, but a canoe seems like a lot of fun.

6' 160lbs, confident reading water, strong J stroke, good balance. After much research I really like the Esquif Raven, Viper 11, a few others around 11' length with some rocker, dry as possible, rollable. I can roll a kayak in a pool, but I'm not interested in hardshell kayaking right now. How swamped is an open canoe after a successful combat roll? I want to be able to run wave trains, punch some holes, boof when needed, and catch small eddies. I will likely be the only canoe amongst kayaks and rafts around here, so I would like to be able to keep up with other types of boats.

I would love to be able to run an open canoe down the North Fork of the Feather and the Pit River, class IV, pretty continuous at times. Is this crazy or am I on the right track?

Also: Seems hard to get a whitewater canoe in California, best options? Anyone with a used boat for sale? Looking to buy one very soon.

Thanks.

[JimW]

I know a few Californian boaters (raft and kayak) - I was really surprised when I rented a WW canoe for the Grand Canyon last year that none of them had ever seen anything like it for real before, so I can totally understand where you are coming from with respect to finding boats, or others to paddle with in Cali.

I still can't roll my Ocoee, I just get better at self-rescuing
Some of the guys who do roll reckon that sometimes when a boat gets really swamped rolling it will get some of that water out (depends on the boat and outfitting).
Swamping is part of OC1, the risk of swamping determines the lines you will try to run - ideally a dry line. Learning to keep a swamped boat upright and drive it into an eddy adds an extra dimension that you don't have in kayak or self bailing raft. The only problem I find when paddling with all my old kayak friends is that they don't appreciate the need to stop and tip the water out fairly frequently - so watch out for getting accidentally left behind!

Something else to consider if getting hold of an OC1 in cali is as tricky as I would expect, is to convert a kayak to a decked C1. The skills will be completely transferable if you later manage to get an OC1, and of course it eliminates all the swamping issues.

[Jer12]

not interested in c1 at the moment, set on open boating. I can appreciate the extra challenge of running dry lines, don't want to feel like im sneaking past everything tho. A solo outfitted dagger caper has appeared for sale nearby. Are all capers about 14' or did they come in different lengths? and anyone who is familiar with the caper, how is it for rolling? would that boat allow me to try the things I'm interested in running without too much punishment?

thanks

[Insanitypierre]

I think you mean the "Dagger Caption"? I have one that I raced for years OC2. My wife and I can roll it in the pool but have yet to hit a true combat roll. We almost got one on the lower Kern but weren't able to finish it off. "doesn't help that she can't roll solo". People do paddle them OC1 but its pretty big. If you want a traditional OC1 for your first boat I would get something in the 11' to 12' range. Dagger Ocoee or Option, Mohawk viper, Probe ect. Those roll nice and have good hull speed. I ran lots of class IV and V- in my Viper 11.