Rolling in Holes

[Northwoodsbc]

So, I've been working on my roll a lot the last 6 months. I am basically 100% in moving class 2-3 right now. But when playboating (Open boat, Stinkeye) I am 50% if I try to roll in the boily outflow of the hole. If my boat sticks in the hole, I'm swimming every time. If the boat flushes out, I just wait until I am past the boily water and roll up. But I'd like to get consistent rolling up sooner or in the hole.

The problem I have is that I am still trying to do a setup. The boily or recirculating water grabs my paddle blade and has it surging all over the place. I can't get into a setup position with the blade. I can get my body tucked forward as I windowshade but the paddle is all over the place.

I've read about windowshading and rolling up on a high brace, but do I just initiate this with the snap using the current to right the boat? Just let the paddle get where it needs to be once I clear the water? The problem with the setup seems to be that the boat is down in the hole and the foam pile is higher than I can reach. So my paddle ends up getting thrashed by that recirculation.

Any tips?

[SamS]

Can't give you any advice but would like to say that I have the exact same problem. Class IV/V boater with a really strong roll but I still swim almost every time that I get surfed on the wrong side of a hole. If it's surfing you with your onside down river then the roll should be much easier as it almost lifts you up on it's own. However, with the offside downriver i still haven't figured out how to roll up without trying a dreaded offside roll.

I have heard advice that you should try to sort of paddle underwater to get the boat turned to your onside. I find it's often too chaotic when getting worked in a hole to do this, but maybe keep that in mind and try it next time.

[Mikey B]

Marcus,
I know in a lot of holes if windowshaded, I don't even think about a tucked forward setup type maneuver, I just swing under and out to the side like I'm rolling up and then get the blade to the surface...quite often just the force of the water and a hip snap gets me up and still in a side surf. That said, some holes are too aerated for me to roll up. I have a hard time even trying to get my body to float out and up so to speak...just turbulent mess and I feel like I am just wanting to be stuck hanging upside down. I usually end up bailing after a couple attempts or getting lucky floating out of it and then rolling. But I'm only 100% at the East Race anymore it seems
Been paddling so little and rolling so little the last couple years I'm lackluster
Be interested in hearing from some of the others

[busterblue]

No advice here. But I love this video for inspiration:
http://vimeo.com/33946195

[SamS]

Edited for my ignorance

[Northwoodsbc]

Wow! That video makes me feel better. Phillip Prince getting worked. Granted he was on his offside and I'm still trying to figure out the onside.

The first few times I tried a windowshade roll to my onside, my body was left flailing under the boat. Completely disorienting. Didn't even know where the front of my boat was. It seems so simple, tuck forward. I was totally lost.

Now I have myself oriented and tucked and feel much more comfortable under there but the paddle is getting thrashed around. Tomorrow night I'll get out and try to initiate the roll and not worry so much about the paddle, see if that works.

Last night I was side surfing offside and was windowshaded. Somehow the boat got spun 180 while I was under. If I would of had the awareness of my position, I could have tried the onside roll. I didn't know where I was until I swam and all the kayakers told me what happened.

I have so much respect for folks that have the spatial awareness and composure to make this happen in such a chaotic environment. I'm going to keep working on it. Hopefully this good water holds until the end of June so I can get hole time.

Marcus

[Walsh]

Sam, look again. There are no on-side rolls in the video clip posted. A strong hip snap is key to the offside rolls at 15 seconds and 46 seconds. At 50 seconds, the roll fails because a large amount of water moving upstream is interfering with the downstream gunwale - look at the strength of the eddy feeding back into the hole in the lower part of the screen.

I think the original poster was talking primarily about on-side rolls. As the video shows, the hole naturally wants to roll you back upstream, its just a case of putting your body in the right place to take advantage of that energy. You may be overthinking it - don't try to set up parallel to the hull where you will get hammered by the green water, but go immediately to the swept out position. Your body and padlle should float up into the foam pile, and a hip snap and very light paddle action should roll you up.

A fluffy hole is one of the few places that an offside roll will work. I can't do one successfully in the pool, but have rolled up in holes with a hip snap and light paddle pressure. (I rarely keep my composure long enough to try, however.)

[Walsh]

Now I have myself oriented and tucked and feel much more comfortable under there but the paddle is getting thrashed around. Tomorrow night I'll get out and try to initiate the roll and not worry so much about the paddle, see if that works.

I have so much respect for folks that have the spatial awareness and composure to make this happen in such a chaotic environment. I'm going to keep working on it. Hopefully this good water holds until the end of June so I can get hole time.

Marcus

It really sounds like you are 95% of the way there. Try to be as relaxed as possible, and move towards your swept-out position. If you are already on your on-side, this should initiate the roll. If not, and you can hang on for a few seconds while the green water beats on you, there is a good chance the hole will spin you so your onside is downstream.

Keep at it!

[SamS]

Wow you're right it was so obviously on his off-side too! Sorry about that I must've not been paying much attention. Very impressive. So for the offside roll is it more of just a low brace and a strong hipsnap or is the paddle pushed down on like on an onside?

[SamS]

I think my issue (sorry don't mean to hijack the thread but seems pertinent!) is when I flip into the hole. Phillip seems to manage to keep himself leaning downstream so that he is rolling about with the hole. This works fine but when I got spun around or lose my balance and flip upstream into the hole it's often a swim for me. Any tips for that?

[Northwoodsbc]

Thanks everyone.

Part of my tucking forward is to keep from hitting my head. The 2 holes we have to work on this aren't particularly deep at the green water. Maybe I can tuck and then sweep in one motion. I think part of my problem is not being fluid. The hesitation to try to setup breaks the momentum gained from the windowshade.

[FullGnarlzOC]

Tips - More practice being upside down and in holes... the more you get use to what the water doing, and your own orientation, the more you are going to be able to put things together to crank out a roll...

If you are side surfing with your onside downstream, and you get window shaded, the green water should push your body where it needs to be, and you should be able to roll up on a low brace - with the hole assisting your roll.

If you are side surfing with your onside upstream and you get window shaded, u won't be able to roll still in the hole obviously - so you'd need to either let the hole flush you out and set up then roll, or u can try to pull yourself out with an underwater draw while upside down - then setup and roll...


to make things simple - get yourself a bombproof setup(practice practice); tucked tight toward the bow, and have your paddle running along side of the canoe on your offside - with blade at the bow. from there you should sweep to 90 degrees, and low brace/hipsnap up.

Dunno if this gonna help or not - but keep at it. you'll get it.

[Einar]

Missing the point.... maybe OC's should come with disposable ejection seat mini rafts.

[TheKrikkitWars]

Keep Calm and Roll More... 95% of the time, it's about being willing to take a long, hard beating and just keep trying to roll, until the thrashing gets you into the outflow and straightens you up enough to roll...

Taking a beating is a massively overlooked skill and it's one which makes a big difference to your confidence too...

Nor, for that matter is this problem actually specific to canoeists...

[Todhunter]

No advice here. But I love this video for inspiration:
http://vimeo.com/33946195

Hand switch @ 0:38!