Here's as big question I'm pondering. Why do people use only a straight shaft paddle in whitewater? And what's with the curved blade? Some folks suggest catch or some such, but I've found a curved blade to be just plain squirrelly.
Why doesn't anyone, outside of the Black Moshannnon Crew and the Loner Crew in Ohiopyle, use bent shafts?
Paddles and why
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Longboatin'
Thought of something else
Oh yeah, while we're on it. Why the freakin' cross bow, why not just switch, in open boats anyway? My argument is that it takes only fractionally longer to switch, and affords one effectively two on-side positions, instead of an on-side and barely effective offside.
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CraigS
A good place to start for your answer is in slalom racing. Watch folks like Hearn or Kaz and you will notice that their strokes are all in the front of the boat. Cross over and all it's all forward momentum. 99% of the corrections they make are power strokes as well.If you feel that a curved blade is too squirrelly you might be doing correction strokes or dragging the blade through the water after you pull. **Try this drill...... paddle forward using short strokes on and off side that don't go much further than your knees... any part of a power stroke that goes past your knees with a correction is a waste of energy. If you are doing this--- stroke... pause.. correction... stroke... pause... correction... quit it! It's a total momentum killer. With practice this will give you much happiness!
Criag
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SlickStick
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Longboatin'
Ok
Again, why not a bentshaft, which is my primary question. A bentshaft effectively produces greater forward "reach" than a straight shaft, and by your knee it's straight up and down. Of course it does require a J-stroke opposed to the goon-stroke (pry) many boaters seem to employ.
Craig, I'm not sure i understand the forward momentum of a cross-stroke, as when switching you're beginning to reach forward as well.
Consider the possibilities, two on-sides. Slick-stick, form follows function...just because something has always been done doesn't mean its the best way. i remember seeing a movie of kayakers on the Lower Yough in the 70s busting some cross-bow strokes while catching eddys, don't see that much anymore.
Craig, I'm not sure i understand the forward momentum of a cross-stroke, as when switching you're beginning to reach forward as well.
Consider the possibilities, two on-sides. Slick-stick, form follows function...just because something has always been done doesn't mean its the best way. i remember seeing a movie of kayakers on the Lower Yough in the 70s busting some cross-bow strokes while catching eddys, don't see that much anymore.
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CraigS
ergo shaft...ok, bent shaft...no way! J-strokes and pry strokes... not for whitewater if I can avoid it.
paddle forward right... paddle forward left... just keep paddlin' forward. Crossover strokes are way more efficent... hand switch if you want but with a good offside stroke you will have the same efficency and far less hassle.
watch the serious racers if you want to see speed and efficency... seriously! And--oh yeah!... some k-1 racers will still throw in a cross now and then!
Out.
paddle forward right... paddle forward left... just keep paddlin' forward. Crossover strokes are way more efficent... hand switch if you want but with a good offside stroke you will have the same efficency and far less hassle.
watch the serious racers if you want to see speed and efficency... seriously! And--oh yeah!... some k-1 racers will still throw in a cross now and then!
Out.
is this Jeff O??-
the great gonzo
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Longboatin,
Are you talking about the whitewater bentshaft paddles (s-bend in the shaft, but the blade is inline or parallel with shaft) or flatwater stile bentshaft (blade is at an angle to the shaft).
The advantage of the ww style bentshaft paddles is, imho mainly less fatigue on the shaft hand due to a more ergonomic wrist angle. Other than that, I did not find a big advantage but I only tried one for a few hours once.
The only advantage of a fletwater bentshaft paddle is, imho, a more efficient forward stroke (that's after all what they are designed for). For all the whitewater strokes, like crossbow, draws, pries and so on, they are useless, because of the offset blade angle. I once used one on a combined ww/fw canoe trip and, while really liking it in the flats, I quickly switched to my straigh shaft spare in the whitewater, as the bentshaft paddle was totally useless there.
As far as switching or cross bow strokes are concerned, I agree with Craig. You have to practice it to make it really efficient. I have seen paddlers who's crossbow stroke is virtually as efficient than their onside stroke. The only drawback is that crossbow low braces are difficult to do (at least for me
) which leads sometimes to some unwanted roll practices 
.
I do not think that curved blade paddles are more squirrely than straight blade ones, but there may be some designs out there that are. Not all curved blade paddles handle the same, there are differences. But they all offer more catch than straight blade ones.
martin
Are you talking about the whitewater bentshaft paddles (s-bend in the shaft, but the blade is inline or parallel with shaft) or flatwater stile bentshaft (blade is at an angle to the shaft).
The advantage of the ww style bentshaft paddles is, imho mainly less fatigue on the shaft hand due to a more ergonomic wrist angle. Other than that, I did not find a big advantage but I only tried one for a few hours once.
The only advantage of a fletwater bentshaft paddle is, imho, a more efficient forward stroke (that's after all what they are designed for). For all the whitewater strokes, like crossbow, draws, pries and so on, they are useless, because of the offset blade angle. I once used one on a combined ww/fw canoe trip and, while really liking it in the flats, I quickly switched to my straigh shaft spare in the whitewater, as the bentshaft paddle was totally useless there.
As far as switching or cross bow strokes are concerned, I agree with Craig. You have to practice it to make it really efficient. I have seen paddlers who's crossbow stroke is virtually as efficient than their onside stroke. The only drawback is that crossbow low braces are difficult to do (at least for me
) which leads sometimes to some unwanted roll practices .I do not think that curved blade paddles are more squirrely than straight blade ones, but there may be some designs out there that are. Not all curved blade paddles handle the same, there are differences. But they all offer more catch than straight blade ones.
martin
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Sir Adam
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Switchin'
I would probably consider switch-paddling if I was faster at it, but I'm not. The slalom racers of the early 70's (pre Lugbill-Hearn) were all switchy paddlers I believe. One of them lives around here and is an absolute delight to watch paddle-he'll switch hands in the midst of ANYTHING and look COMPLETELY calm and collected. Of course, formerly being on the WildWater National team might have something to do with that too 
.
Ergo-grip vs. straight shaft I think it's really personal preference. But I think rolling with a bent shaft would be somewhat more difficult (more applicable for us decked boaters than the OC folks).
Bent shafts are made for efficiently paddling straight forward...I'm not sure how they'd fair manuevering through a rapid. That said, I HAVE seen some downriver OC2 folks use them to what appeared to be an advantage in a downriver race. But then again, that's what it was mostly about-straight ahead speed with little maneuvering.
Any slalom folks ever try a bent shaft on a course??
.Ergo-grip vs. straight shaft I think it's really personal preference. But I think rolling with a bent shaft would be somewhat more difficult (more applicable for us decked boaters than the OC folks).
Bent shafts are made for efficiently paddling straight forward...I'm not sure how they'd fair manuevering through a rapid. That said, I HAVE seen some downriver OC2 folks use them to what appeared to be an advantage in a downriver race. But then again, that's what it was mostly about-straight ahead speed with little maneuvering.
Any slalom folks ever try a bent shaft on a course??
Keep the C!
Adam
Adam
I don't switch 'cause I'm a miserable Class-2 paddler on my left...
Even if I was competent on my left, I'd be hesitant to switch under combat conditions. I've practiced a quick switch on flatwater, but it's simply not fast or reliable enough.
I believe that Chuck Wendler (a very good paddler and Open-boat slalom racer) both switches and uses a bent-shaft flat-water-style paddle. I was surprised to see Jamie McEwan switch in an Open-boat slalom too, considering that I'd never seen him switch when he paddled C1.
That said, the primary reason I prefer a spoon blade is mostly the recovery stroke. It might not be quite as stable, but seems almost to act like a sail, pulling the boat forward...
Even if I was competent on my left, I'd be hesitant to switch under combat conditions. I've practiced a quick switch on flatwater, but it's simply not fast or reliable enough.
I believe that Chuck Wendler (a very good paddler and Open-boat slalom racer) both switches and uses a bent-shaft flat-water-style paddle. I was surprised to see Jamie McEwan switch in an Open-boat slalom too, considering that I'd never seen him switch when he paddled C1.
That said, the primary reason I prefer a spoon blade is mostly the recovery stroke. It might not be quite as stable, but seems almost to act like a sail, pulling the boat forward...
Bob P
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Shy guy
boatin
Tony Estanguet won the gold in C-1 slalom in 2000 with bent shaft. Actually, the shaft simply bends to allow the blade father forward. But then the paddle is still parallel to the rest of the shaft. It's like a straight shaft with an S in the middle. It's not the funky bent shaft like Chuck uses.
Interestingly, when he won gold in 2004 it was with a straight shaft.
I have never tried one of those true bent shaft ones, but yes, some guys on the NESS series (Chuck, Woody) use them. Both those guys switch hands too.
Andy Bridge became one of the top 3-4 wildwater c-1s in the world during the 1980, despite the fact that he switched hands all the time and many other coaches and athletes frowned on this practice.
I'm surprised you found a curved blade to be squirly.
Alden
Interestingly, when he won gold in 2004 it was with a straight shaft.
I have never tried one of those true bent shaft ones, but yes, some guys on the NESS series (Chuck, Woody) use them. Both those guys switch hands too.
Andy Bridge became one of the top 3-4 wildwater c-1s in the world during the 1980, despite the fact that he switched hands all the time and many other coaches and athletes frowned on this practice.
I'm surprised you found a curved blade to be squirly.
Alden
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Mike W.
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I primarily use a spoon blade in whitewater. I'm a little biased, but my Mitchell has the best bite of any paddle I've tried. That said, it's also heavy. When the river here is high & I have to paddle 2 miles upstream to get to a wave, I use my Zaveral. I've got the Outrigger Power Surge Light. It's a bent shaft with a wide (by flatwater standards) blade that has a little bit of a spoon at the tip. I think it weighs 9 or 10oz. & my stroke rate is much faster with it. I think most folks will agree that a smaller blade is preferable with a high stroke rate. I also use this paddle for downriver racing. I stink at slalom, but I did try this paddle in a race & found that I didn't have the bite that I wanted for changing direction.
As for the cross-stroke / sit & switch debate, when I'm racing 70 miles in a day I'll sit & switch. It's easier on the old bones. We're not super fast, but sit & switch we'll knock off 65-70 strokes per minute cruising all day. Sometimes riding wake I'll throw in a cross-stroke for a quick correction. If I'm in whitewater I want the quick reaction of doing cross-strokes. I've found the most effective correction for nearly flipping offside is to do a quick, strong cross-forward stroke.
The bent-shaft does put the blade entry further forward, but that's not the effective part of the design. The most efficient part of the bent-shaft stroke is from knee to hip, where the blade is vertical. Once a spoon blade reaches the knee, it's effectiveness begins to dwindle.
Rolling is actually easier with the bent shaft. Think about it, you're using the non-power face, so the back-side of a bent-shaft has a better relationship to the water than the back-side of a spoon-blade.
As for the cross-stroke / sit & switch debate, when I'm racing 70 miles in a day I'll sit & switch. It's easier on the old bones. We're not super fast, but sit & switch we'll knock off 65-70 strokes per minute cruising all day. Sometimes riding wake I'll throw in a cross-stroke for a quick correction. If I'm in whitewater I want the quick reaction of doing cross-strokes. I've found the most effective correction for nearly flipping offside is to do a quick, strong cross-forward stroke.
The bent-shaft does put the blade entry further forward, but that's not the effective part of the design. The most efficient part of the bent-shaft stroke is from knee to hip, where the blade is vertical. Once a spoon blade reaches the knee, it's effectiveness begins to dwindle.
Rolling is actually easier with the bent shaft. Think about it, you're using the non-power face, so the back-side of a bent-shaft has a better relationship to the water than the back-side of a spoon-blade.
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KNeal (work)
I'm gonna build a little more on what Mike W. stated, though all responses have been very helpful.
If I remember correctly, the spoon shape of the whitewater blade does two things: 1). you "grab" more water with the curved blade than with a flat surface while decreasing drag on the forward stroke; and 2). the curve of the blade allows the tip to enter more cleanly (less splash) and generate pressure earlier on the forward stroke so you are generating power on the forward stoke from the "catch" to your knees/thighs.
As was already stated, paddle what you like. I like the spoon blade, a buddy of mine (open boater) sticks to the flat blade (and he's a VERY good open boater.
the bent-shaft on whitewater paddles (not the flatwater designs) is for ergonomic reasons rather than for actual functional performance. Straight shafts cause the wrist of the shaft hand to inward deviate significantly at the catch of the forward stroke (thumb-side of hand is bent toward the wrist). The bent shaft design decreases this deviation which increases comfort, so the boater should perform better. But, the performance is based on boater comfort, not paddle design. Again, it comes down to personal preference. Which do YOU like?
As far as the cross stroke vs. switch paddling (so you always have an onside stroke), the decision is personal. I'll switch hands on flatwater and slow stretches on the river and even through some class 3 stuff (sometimes). But when it comes time to perform and get my butt down some technical, difficult, challenging, scary, dangerous, even LIFE THREATENING WHITEWATER
. You'll have to wait until I get to the bottom and spend a few minutes breathing before you can get the deathgrip on the shaft to relax enough to let go . I need to switch sides fast enough to keep my balance and use certain characteristics of the cross stroke (eg. torque, both hands ALWAYS on the paddle) in order to stay upright. I'm comfortable with the cross stroke. My open boatin' friend switch paddles a lot and is a very good boater. Still comes down to personal preference.
After all of this typing, I'm gonna wrap up my post by stating that it all comes down to personal preference. Get on the water and be happy
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KNeal (I'm between clients and am checking all my whitwater sites rather than do work stuff ).
If I remember correctly, the spoon shape of the whitewater blade does two things: 1). you "grab" more water with the curved blade than with a flat surface while decreasing drag on the forward stroke; and 2). the curve of the blade allows the tip to enter more cleanly (less splash) and generate pressure earlier on the forward stroke so you are generating power on the forward stoke from the "catch" to your knees/thighs.
As was already stated, paddle what you like. I like the spoon blade, a buddy of mine (open boater) sticks to the flat blade (and he's a VERY good open boater.
the bent-shaft on whitewater paddles (not the flatwater designs) is for ergonomic reasons rather than for actual functional performance. Straight shafts cause the wrist of the shaft hand to inward deviate significantly at the catch of the forward stroke (thumb-side of hand is bent toward the wrist). The bent shaft design decreases this deviation which increases comfort, so the boater should perform better. But, the performance is based on boater comfort, not paddle design. Again, it comes down to personal preference. Which do YOU like?
As far as the cross stroke vs. switch paddling (so you always have an onside stroke), the decision is personal. I'll switch hands on flatwater and slow stretches on the river and even through some class 3 stuff (sometimes). But when it comes time to perform and get my butt down some technical, difficult, challenging, scary, dangerous, even LIFE THREATENING WHITEWATER
. You'll have to wait until I get to the bottom and spend a few minutes breathing before you can get the deathgrip on the shaft to relax enough to let go . I need to switch sides fast enough to keep my balance and use certain characteristics of the cross stroke (eg. torque, both hands ALWAYS on the paddle) in order to stay upright. I'm comfortable with the cross stroke. My open boatin' friend switch paddles a lot and is a very good boater. Still comes down to personal preference.After all of this typing, I'm gonna wrap up my post by stating that it all comes down to personal preference. Get on the water and be happy
.KNeal (I'm between clients and am checking all my whitwater sites rather than do work stuff
).