Anybody know anything about the Apple Line OC2 listed on eBay in California? 17' Duraflex, with some info on designers, but I'd never heard of Apple Line.
Kaz? Anyone?
Pat.
Apple Line canoes
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kaz
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NEOC Slalom Rules
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Pat,
I raced an Apple Slalom boat about twenty years ago. It was a glass lay-up and and had very hard chines with a near vertical side wall (ie very catchy to side current, little secondary stability). I remember one couple racing a doubles boat from Apple. I think it was called the Xcider. Again, a glass layup with similar lines, planing hull, good spinner but tippy with side current. As Kaz said, they went out of business many years ago. If the boat has been stored in a barn or something, you may a have a usable historical "find" to negotiate for. If its been in the sun for many years, the resin has probably gotten quite brittle and the boat would not take much abuse.
Pat
I raced an Apple Slalom boat about twenty years ago. It was a glass lay-up and and had very hard chines with a near vertical side wall (ie very catchy to side current, little secondary stability). I remember one couple racing a doubles boat from Apple. I think it was called the Xcider. Again, a glass layup with similar lines, planing hull, good spinner but tippy with side current. As Kaz said, they went out of business many years ago. If the boat has been stored in a barn or something, you may a have a usable historical "find" to negotiate for. If its been in the sun for many years, the resin has probably gotten quite brittle and the boat would not take much abuse.
Pat
Open Boat/Open Mind
..did they use "apple sauce" rather than epoxy? just curious..
addition...
I have a Apple built MaxII that is still h20 worthy so you might get lucky! The glass is brittle but 2 years ago it took part in the Armada on the NBofP. It's butt ugly and decorated with duct tape but works - it was priced right! 
But if I hit a rock it I most likely would wind up with apple sauce!
Best of luck!
But if I hit a rock it I most likely would wind up with apple sauce!
Best of luck!
Paul C.
Cboats Moderator
Official TOG Member (Team Old Guy)!
Cboats Moderator
Official TOG Member (Team Old Guy)!
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Guest
Getting a well-built Apple boat was a hit or miss deal even when buying one new from the factory twenty-five years ago.
The rumors at the time involved the use of cheap, transient labor and very little quality control during construction at the factory. The result was often a sub par boat.
I recall that the right materials (lots of Kevlar, s-glass, and epoxy) were used to build the Apple boats but they often fractured and delaminated upon impact, and had notoriously weak seams that would blow out easily.
So, even if it has been stored indoors and seen little time on the river, an old Apple Boat is buying a pig in a poke. (I was given an Apple Ultramax by one racer that was dissatisfied with it after only a couple months of use. I had to reseam it before passing it on to another novice. I would not accept an Apple boat again.)
I never saw an Apple boat that even approached a Nittany Valley Boat (John Sweet) in quality of construction or appearance. Even the Noah (Vladimir Vanha) boats were superior to the Apples, and they were usually built using much less "high-tech" materials. About the only boats that were as poorly built as the Apples were the heavy glass and nylon boats from the Phoenix factory. Again, cheap, transient labor was blamed for the inconsistent quality.
The rumors at the time involved the use of cheap, transient labor and very little quality control during construction at the factory. The result was often a sub par boat.
I recall that the right materials (lots of Kevlar, s-glass, and epoxy) were used to build the Apple boats but they often fractured and delaminated upon impact, and had notoriously weak seams that would blow out easily.
So, even if it has been stored indoors and seen little time on the river, an old Apple Boat is buying a pig in a poke. (I was given an Apple Ultramax by one racer that was dissatisfied with it after only a couple months of use. I had to reseam it before passing it on to another novice. I would not accept an Apple boat again.)
I never saw an Apple boat that even approached a Nittany Valley Boat (John Sweet) in quality of construction or appearance. Even the Noah (Vladimir Vanha) boats were superior to the Apples, and they were usually built using much less "high-tech" materials. About the only boats that were as poorly built as the Apples were the heavy glass and nylon boats from the Phoenix factory. Again, cheap, transient labor was blamed for the inconsistent quality.
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Another guest
Apple boats
That description is essentially correct.
As I remember it, if you got a boat made by Stan & Cathy, you got a good boat, but you had to be "somebody important" to get their attention.
The story was that to keep costs down, they ran a gov't subsidized "job training program". The trainees built the majority of the boats. When they completed the "program", new "trainees" were started. The quality was as you might expect.
They also sold some paddling gear, and one story (possibly apocryphal) was that they were always behind on payments to the suppliers. They were in to Bonnie Losick for supplying pogies until she finally caught up to Stan at a race, put his boat on her car, & drove away with it as hostage until he paid up.
Those were the (good, bad, interesting) old days...
As I remember it, if you got a boat made by Stan & Cathy, you got a good boat, but you had to be "somebody important" to get their attention.
The story was that to keep costs down, they ran a gov't subsidized "job training program". The trainees built the majority of the boats. When they completed the "program", new "trainees" were started. The quality was as you might expect.
They also sold some paddling gear, and one story (possibly apocryphal) was that they were always behind on payments to the suppliers. They were in to Bonnie Losick for supplying pogies until she finally caught up to Stan at a race, put his boat on her car, & drove away with it as hostage until he paid up.
Those were the (good, bad, interesting) old days...
Apple Line - Layup (long)
If I remember correctly the Duraflex layup was E-glass, Polyester or Nylon Cloth, and Kevlar with Vinylester resin. It was their "Training Layup" - You could beat it pretty hard and not totally trash the boat.
It was not their heaviest layup, but was a lot more durable than their racing layup. The term "potato chip boats" was coined about the race layup. They kept the weight down by just using a couple of layers of Kevlar - no glass
There was a time when Apple line was the quickest way to get the hot new race boat - I tried to get a Batmax from John Sweet - The wait was 6 months or more
Fred
It was not their heaviest layup, but was a lot more durable than their racing layup. The term "potato chip boats" was coined about the race layup. They kept the weight down by just using a couple of layers of Kevlar - no glass
There was a time when Apple line was the quickest way to get the hot new race boat - I tried to get a Batmax from John Sweet - The wait was 6 months or more
Fred
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Guest
You are right about the type of resin used in the Apple boats. It was vinylester, and not an epoxy. Sorry about my mis-remembering. Either way, there is a reason the Apple Line is not being built today. Since they offered the hot designs and good materials, it is likely to have been something else!
So did anyone buy that Apple Line canoe that was on eBay? Hard to imagine that such an old composite boat would be worth shipping via a commercial carrier. (I think it was being offered from California.)
So did anyone buy that Apple Line canoe that was on eBay? Hard to imagine that such an old composite boat would be worth shipping via a commercial carrier. (I think it was being offered from California.)