A bit scared....

[Pierre LaPaddelle]

. . . Einar, Rick or others around here in the PNW, am I being unfair about how hard it may be for a keen novice like CanadIan to find some good instruction? . . .

Like Einar, I can't argue. But it's not 100 % doom and gloom. PNW boaters DID get Eli Helbert in for two clinics this year (in fact, almost 3!) And we did locate a WW instructor willing to do some C-1 instruction.

Rule of thumb is it's always easier/cheaper to bring a clinician in, than to travel en masse to the clinician's back yard. Arranging a clinic can be done -- it just requires lotsa e-mails, some phone calls, posts on the forum, and a tenacious attitude. We proved this year that we have enough boaters looking for quality instruction to justify the effort it takes.

Meanwhile, Ian, yours is the 4th L'Edge in the BC south-west. You've got some good mentors in the other three. (And, BTW, two more on the Island with pretty good skills.)

Rick

[yarnellboat]

Doesn't Roger C. who came to watch the T50 have a L'Edge too? If so, Ian would be the 4th L'Edge in the valley (making the valley 100% L'Edge, because that's everybody, and they'll run into each other eventually), plus Ken in Vancouver would be 5. That would probably make the L'Edge the most popular/numerous hull in the Lower Mainland, or maybe tied with the Ocoee. Just in those 10 boats there's a decent set of peers/mentors for sure, including 1 great-but-seldom-seen instructor, if we could ever just get each other on the river together.

Pat.

[Einar]

Glad to be wrong.
The reason I hustled down to Portland to paddle with Eli was I didn't believe that a local quorum could be raised and I din't want to miss an opportunity. Glad to be proven wrong.

And i forgot paul Mason made it out for a session on the Chilliwack. Thanks Paul, not forgotten, just slowly remembered.
Ricks right. (I'm in a generous mood) Fly'em out, money up front, I'll be there.

Another interesting event, that was alluded to, but not mentioned. I made the 2014 Open Canoe Nationals on the Blackwater River in Montana this year, with Heather's prompting me.
Those guys are good, they definitely made the challenging paddlers in difficult water list-- the learn from good partners idea.

At one point i pulled over to shore at gate in mid course that I kept missing and missing and I sat there for an hour watching the skills cycle thru ....and i got it. The good ones, the gate makers, were subtle, using stuff i didn't see. I stole their magic, made that gate... and came in last. But I made that gate!
(**** shameless plug for the Nationals: I had a lotta fun, on and off the course)

(The gate was mid course, river left, upstream red that had a whole river ferry, right to left approach. forgot the #'s.)

[JimW]

Wow, I knew it was difficult in the western US, didn't realize western Canada was just as difficult.

At the moment I seem to be the only active OC1 in the west of Scotland - I keep hearing from people that have one, or intend to get one, but I never see them on the river, or even on on the artificial course. The only other OC1's I've seen in Scotland have been guys I've arranged to meet from England, Wales and Ireland when they do trips up here!

But to put things into context, I could often meet the English guys by driving about 3-4 hours south, which is nothing really, you could drop the entire UK into most states and provinces with room to spare all around. You guys are definitely more spread out!

[yarnellboat]

Hmmm, Einar, so Paul offered a course on the Chilliwack back then too? Guess I was relegated to the "rookie camp" on the Cheakamus and wasn't allowed to play with the big boys. Proof that Paul's courses work I guess, because somehow I did get better after that, so maybe there's hope for CanadIan. But it would be nice if we do better than a course in 2001 and a course in 2014.

P.

[Pierre LaPaddelle]

Doesn't Roger C. have a L'Edge too? If so, Ian would be the 4th L'Edge in the valley (making the valley 100% L'Edge, because that's everybody, and they'll run into each other eventually), plus Ken in Vancouver would be 5. That would probably make the L'Edge the most popular/numerous hull in the Lower Mainland . . .

Yep -- I left Ken out, 'cause he's not a Valley Boy. So -- 5 on the Mainland, and 2 (plus an Option) on the Island. It's also possible that a certain f/s Quake might end up on the active Island list (not mine). And rumour has it that the Fly might make a comeback, and the Force may be with us. Viva short boats!

[Einar]

....on the other hand it is great to meet new people, see new rivers and learn new tricks. Travelling to canoe si just like travelling for anything else. It enriches your experience.

I would probably throw the boats on the truck and go irregardless, having a instructor put on a play boat course far away is just window dressing for something I want to do anyways, hit the road and have fun.
e

[Paddle Power]

I know BC is a big area but on the Paddle Canada site there are dozen advanced moving water instructors (CIII).

On the RCABC site there are a few MW/PB/C1 instructors listed for Vancouver, and about 30 for the province.

[yarnellboat]

Finding certified instructors is one thing, finding an actual course is another!

We know the 6 ww instructors RCABC lists in the Lower Mainland, and there seems to be a few others as well listed on Paddle Canada, though I've never known them to paddle ww, 2 or 3 of the 6 from RCABC I don't think ever taught and/or don't paddle much class III, the other 3 or 4 are the folks CanadIan could contact to inquire about some sort of lesson. Some have been doing basic (flatwater) courses through community centres, some are involved with the club, some have occassioanlly done private lessons, but none have been very active in the last number of years.

In the province then, I'd say we have maybe 3 out of 30 MW instuctors who actively offer courses, and the most active 2 are a team that's busiest with colleges etc. and their regular schedule/marketing hasn't had them very hooked up with random newbies in the Lower Mainland. The 3rd I toss in as benefit of the doubt that somebody up north might offer some courses, but not really to reach boaters from Vancouver area.

CanadIan best options are: 1) paddle locally by yourself or with kayakers whenever he can 2) use the local forum to meet people and get on the water with others - may be a like-minded partner also on the Chilliwack, some class III-IV OC locals may be willing to do lower-adreneline practice time, Vanc paddlers may come to Chilliwack rarely, or Ian could travel to Vanc sometimes 3) join the club and do some of its programming in the spring and paddle Rivers Week 4) watch for the 1 possible/usual course in the Okanagan in the spring and 5) contact an inactive not obvious instuctor and ask for something

#1 he controls, but misses Paul's point about getting some appropriate instruction/guidance early on. #s 3 & 4 aren't any good for 6 months. #s 2 & 5 could work if gets linked up with the available community.

The paddlers around here who have made the jump to beyond class II floats and done the most improving in the past many years have done it the following ways, often combining a few:
- been really dedicated about practicing/training on their own, paddled lots (very rare)
- been pretty fearless and jumped into anything with kayakers, paddled lots (also rare)
- travelled hard to paddle with other groups and/or get training, paddled lots (also rare, takes some time & money)
- hooked up on the local forum to get more practice and mentoring (more common but slower advancement)
- started with the club, including a mentoring weekend for river running (common start but few stick with it to find more)

Legit WW canoeing courses, nevermind a progression of opportunities or different opportunities, unfortunately, are not part of the expected routine here right now. There was a single option for more regular instruction linked through the club 10 years ago, but when that instructor became less available (or didn't think there was the interest for annual courses?) no new options took its place.

Maybe there's just not enough interest around Vancouver for an instructor to offer an annual course or even private or small group lessons on request, but it seems like there should be and I wish there was, to help us get to that self-sustaining group of III+ OC boaters, and to give new keeners like CanadIan some way to get going and keep improving.

Pat.

[Pierre LaPaddelle]

The paddlers around here who have made the jump to beyond class II floats and done the most improving in the past many years have done it the following ways, often combining a few:
- been really dedicated about practicing/training on their own, paddled lots. . .
- been pretty fearless and jumped into anything with kayakers, paddled lots. . .
- travelled hard to paddle with other groups and/or get training, paddled lots. . .
- hooked up on the local forum to get more practice and mentoring. . .
- started with the club, including a mentoring weekend for river running. . .

Legit WW canoeing courses, nevermind a progression of opportunities or different opportunities, unfortunately, are not part of the expected routine here right now.

I think you're onto it, Pat.

For complete beginners, a formal 'course' (MW Tandem, and MW Solo) is the way to start. The Beaver CC has this down to a fine art. Ditto the Victoria CKC

The next step is to PADDLE. Paddle often. Paddle with better boaters. Paddle on rivers which will challenge you, without threatening your life. Pay your dues; swim a bunch. This is where club trips come in, AND, more importantly, where getting to know boaters on the informal network (including the forum) comes in.

Beyond that, informal 'clinics' can be very effective, as they cater more to individual paddlers' improvement than they do to certification. A case in point -- Eli Helbert's clinics this summer.

Yes, there are 'instructors' (or maybe 'clinicians') in BC who can be tapped. Some are busy professional instructors, whose services must be chased. But some are not -- they may need some persuasion, but they're available.

I paddle regularly with Lyle Dickieson's brother and sister -- what do you want to bet we could persuade him to do a one day clinic for us, next time he's visiting? Tim Marks is another Master Instructor -- he's local, and he's approachable. (He introduced a group of Intermediate boaters to the Upper Koksilah, and now we have the confidence to do it regularly.)

None of this is daunting! If we want it, let's go for it!

Rick

[yarnellboat]

Wow Rick, you make me feel so pessimistic (and hopefully I am, not paddling will do that to a guy), but we see things differently... I can't say anything about the club on the island, but my whole point is that the Vancouver club does not have it nailed as far as training!

The basic, intro training the club offers is nowhere near what somebody like Ian would get out of an actual course for ww solo! Not that such courses should be provided by the club, at least not for free, but clubs should be able to facilitate access to further, real courses. For quite a while now, there has been no such evidence of or opportunities for a legit ww solo course - it's a gap, which Paul's recommendation revealed.

We've got a few people around now who've laid out a couple of grand to get and outfit a ww canoe, and have reached out in various ways to find ways to get going, and they're not left with much! As local communities, and as a sport in general, we should have programming to offer these keeners who already have some river experience and are eager to paddle class III in an open boat.

We've got the 'very beginners' covered and the 'paddle lots' folks take care of themselves, but we don't have much that supports people getting from one group to the other, which is something like the formal courses Paul was recommending for Ian, but we lack here now.

Cracking an inner circle to identify potential instructors-in-hiding and then driving 10 hours makes ww canoeing here more of secret society than a realistic option for outdoor recreation!

With an attitude like you have, people can certainly get out there and make it happen, but most people who inquire about our sport may not be that determined right off the bat.

Pat.

[jakke]

Sounds to me you guys can, and have to, do a lot by yourselves. And it's possible, though not as fast as with dedicated instruction.

I've trained a few guys who have no local access to instruction, not even national when talking ww canoeing.
My approach there was to get the foundations really right, and the understanding of how and why these foundations. So yes, that was lots of flatwater paddling. And secondly get the understanding and foundations right on easy moving water, no harder than class I/II-. It's pretty advanced stuff, we're not talking just paddling in a straight line here. It's about maximizing performance, different options you have for a move, developing a feel for the blade, ... . All those things you need to make advanced river paddling work, but lots of them can be trained in a "lab environment" on a lake.

I've surprised many paddlers in the past by stepping it down to the foundations and easy river moves, and then showing later on how much progress they made on the harder stuff.

So that would be my idea of how you guys can make solid progress: travel to find an instructor who's willing to invest on your foundations and understanding. The rivertime and training is up to you. And you'll probably have a harder time finding people to work on the foundation stuff, but you can do that alone, than paddling some harder stuff. Having stuff to do in such a "lab environment" also gives you an opportunity to paddle with the "beginners" and make it a social thing, but still have your own challenges. And maybe motivate some of them by showing what can be done. so you could actually be an ambassador to move people from one group to another.

It could prove to be quite a challenge though to find an instructor who's capable and willing to deliver the above though.

[Einar]

If you are in a canoe and you are new and you can't quite figure it out.... just ask. The guy next to you may have it dialled in or not, may be social or not, but it is just words. If he or she helps you great, if not ask someone else.

You won't get a course with a full agenda of building blocks of theory but if you learn one thing new from someone every time you go on the river it adds up fast. At least that is the way I done it.

Which bring me back to you, Ian. It takes an hour for me to drive to you and it takes the same hour for you to drive to me. Come on down to the Seymour this weekend, I'll paddle with you. It is great training river 5 minutes from my house. And the run ends in a pub.

PM me an email.
e

[yarnellboat]

Nice Einar, I hope that Ian (and Roger C and Rachael) take you up on this, and that they continue to get offers from other folks too. Hopefully we can get all 3 of these new folks into the Tamihi Five-0 next year!

As you reaped, so shall you sow. I guess that's what it comes to do as far as building what we can of an improving OC community here - the confident paddlers have be be willing to spend time with the wobblier paddlers.

P.

[JimW]

I tried to reply earlier but my browser crashed.

Essentially I was just trying to say that it must be really difficult to develop a coaching scene when there are very few people participating at any level. Even if someone does go away and get qualified, if there aren't enough people to train when they get back they won't progress as a coach, and may even start to forget stuff from their coaching course if they aren't using it often. It may be easier if the person who gets trained up is already coaching canoe and kayak, but if their life already revolves around that, will they be able to fit in the time to develop their own personal OC1 skills - I know a few in the UK who manage it, but they always paddle OC1 (or C1) in their spare time, I know a few other guys much closer to me that apparently can coach OC1 but I've never seen any of them in OC1, one I have kayaked with a few times and I've seen him coaching in canoes (and he is very good at both).

The thing is Ian is crossing over from kayak like I have. Hopefully like me he will have a lot of kayak experience to build on, and his biggest problem is confidence on the off-side. If so my advice would be to find another OC1 paddler, or a small group (i.e. take up Einar's offer), pick a river that isn't too hard but will challenge you a bit, choose a warm day when you don't mind swimming too much, and get it into your head that you are going to swim a lot (so a short trip would be sensible). Watch someone hitting off-side breakouts, see how much they rotate and how far they edge the boat, and then try to copy it. Hopefully you will swim less than you expect and develop some confidence in edging solidly onto a cross bow rudder. Once you get some confidence with that cross forward strokes will feel easier and almost everything else is the same as kayaking, apart from keeping the boat running straight. OK that's not really true, but almost everything else is much easier to adapt from what you are used to in kayak once you you get your head in the right place with the cross deck stuff and edging to the off side.