Taureau, latest word

[Louie]

I just hit sumit on my last post when the owner of Esquif called he has the new plastic and the boat will hit the stores on May 15 or 20th. .070 bottom sheet .050 top sheet ( now I got to go home and measure mine to how thick it is)

[the great gonzo]

Louie,

How is the boat made? you are mentioning Esquif using sheets of plastic, so I assume they are not rotomolding the boats?
Also, if they are made from 2 different sheets for hull and deck, I assume they are welded together, is that right?
Are you sure about the sheet thickness? 0.070" for the hull sounds awfully thin, that's less than 2 mm! I think this would make for a very flimsy hull that wears through rapidly, at least the way I paddle .

martin

[Louie]

They ain't flimsly, I think mine is plenty thick enought but Jaeques wanted them thicker, so they are goin to be thicker. It is roto moled plastic made into a sheet and then heated , pressed and vaccum in the mold. Considering how much trouble we had at that other boat maker I worked at with getting the uniform thickness with the roto mold propcess. this is so much better . You can get the sheet preformed to the right thickness in the right places so as long as you put it in the mold the right way you have the thickness where you want it. The two piece deals let you have a thinner top half so you don't have extra material and weight you don't need. The welding is pretty cool.

[Louie]

Some people say I'm hard on boats, OK everyone says I'm hard on boats

[Mikey B]

Louie,
Any word yet on what the price will be? Outfitted?
What kind of outfitting will come with it or be offered for it?
Thanks,
Mike

[dixie_boater]

I didn't know the boat is made by welding two halves together. Is it the only canoe, besides a C-1 or C-2, constructed in this manner?

I can't wait to paddle this creek boat. I am so looking forward to Sunday

[billcanoes]

Hi Dixie,

Savage used three pieces in their mold, and I think Pyranha did with the superfly, but their mold came out much nice than the superfly-

Never looked at the Quake or Aftershock to see if they did this too.


Louie-

any chance you'll be by the Nanty this weekend?

Bill

[Louie]

Man I hope not, I also hope it ain't the Ocoee again, I've been there the last two weekend and really want to go somewhere else. Chad might be coming over there on Sunday . You can call me if you like 865 388 0915

[dixie_boater]

Bill,

The Taureau is the first plastic boat I've noticed with a seam around the deck. Next time I see a Savage Skeeter or Pyranha Spanish Fly I'll look more closely at how the pieces are joined together.

The prototype that Louie is paddling has tape covering the seam. The boat leaked water at the bow when I was dumping it out on the bank. Given that Louie is hard on boats it came as no surprise to see that the seam had parted. Do you know what method is used to join the halves or pieces togther? For the production models it would need to be a very strong bond to prevent the seam from opening. Polyethylene is difficult to bond with adhesives. I wonder what Esquif is using on the Taureau.

Michael

[billcanoes]

I wouldn't trust glue to hold a plastic boat together- I assume the Taureau is welded . but I haven't seen or paddled it yet-other than photos. I have some pictures of Spanish FLy, if I remember there was just a line which I assumed was two halves mended or pressed together while hot, or very clean welding?, and Skeeter definitely looks like welding, and I can take a picture of the SuperFly- and email it to you.


billcanoes@yahoo.com

[Craig Smerda]

(ESQUIF) The hull halves are thermal and vacum formed then welded together. It's new technology in some sense and last time Jaqcues talked to me he was dialing the process in. I can assure you he won't let these boats leave until he knows the process is right.

In answer to your questions on the Fly (ROBSON,SAVAGE,PYRANHA) line of boats or even Daggers... they where rotomolded. Totally different process. Rotomolding is basically this...

2 or 3 piece mold with a seam line(s) to take mold apart.

Mold is filled with specific amount of plastic

Mold is heated and rotated... plastic melts... covers inside of mold

Mold is cooled... taken apart... out pop's your new boat.

The lines you see on some of the aforementioned boat are simply the parting lines of the mold. Most of these boats where made in fiberglass molds and the parting line is simply harder to hide. Take a look at any of the newer high end 'yak's out there these days and you will have a difficult time finding the parting lines on them. Aluminum molds that they are made in are much better but also cost $20-30K. That makes it difficult to justify spending on a "canoe" they might sell 100 of.

Craig

[dixie_boater]

I thought the Dagger and Fly boats were one-piece rotomolded contruction. I read that limited productions were done with fiberglass molds because the aluminum molds were very expensive and reserved for high production runs.

I am sure Esquif wants to get their fabrication method fully developed before they start selling the Taureau. A leaky seam would'nt be very well accepted by the buying public.

Michael

[Craig Smerda]

yup... the boat is "one-piece" the mold (glass or aluminum) isn't. Look inside the hulls and tell me if you see the same line on the outside. Nope. (ESQUIF is not rotomolding boats)

FYI

Google rotational molding... it's pretty cool stuff. Big $$ though.

[billcanoes]

Thanks Craig,

I thought the Savages were welded, but I guess it's just bad mold allignment, and assumed the Pyranha fly was welded better, because there was only a small line visible. Your description makes more sense for the small seam/mold allingment. I was previously under the immpression that everyone was doing what Esquif is now doingThanks for the information! Is welding, with plastic weaker or as strong as the mold removal system?

[Louie]

All welds reguardless of the material ( Alum , stainless, Carbon Steel or Plastic) should be stronger than the base material when the proper welding procedure is followed. Welding involves the melting of the base material and the fusion of the two pieces even if a filler material is used, vrus soldering or brazing which does not require the melting of the base material. The added strenght comes fropm the fact that after the two base materials and filler are cooled they are one solid piece thicker than any of the original three pieces. Most weld failures occur next to the weld in the heat zone ( the area affected by the heat from the welding process) but not in the actual weld itself.