OC-1 painters

[NZMatt]

I've ben off line for a while and just found this post. I think it's a really important one to think about and there are always going to be different opinions. I knolw many who use painters and many who don't. I'm halfway, using a well secured (more later) bow painter, but no stern painter....here's a couple of stories.

When I was just learning to paddle OC1, I took a club boat out on the Hudson in April at 6ft. It was an easy section, class II-III, but running fairly high and fast. The Hudson is wide. I was paddling with one friend in a kayak. I entered a kneeling too high and managed to flip the XL13. Noting that it had no painters I had attached my 70ft throwbag to the bow grab loop and tucked it under the deck plate. When I flipped I tried to swim to shore, but it was cold enough that I had to get my friend to assist and only then could he catch the boat (which was in the middle of the river of course). With the 70ft throw bag he *just* managed to get the end of the rope to shore before it came tight. Painters wouldn'tve have been much use here (too short), but the throw bag worked great. Better would have been to be paddling in a bigger group.

The main reason I know use a bow painter is after an incident 2 years ago when I was teaching. At the time I had no painters nor grab handles on my boat (Esquif Detonator). If I recall accurately things went as follows. We had a beginner class of 7 students with 4 instructors, myself in OC1, a pair in an OC2 and a friend running safety boat in a kayak. This was on the Mongaup in NY, a class II-II+ rockgarden run. Lots of fun, but one I normally reserve for very strong beginner classes (canoe or kayak) This weekend we had no other choice for water. Running one rapid I lead and caught an eddy partway down. The rest of the class and instructors passed me by, excluding the last student, who also happened to be my wife. Instead she took a channel on the other side of a large rock. She didn't immediately emerge and then waved her paddle in a distress signal. The only way I could reach her (she was slightly upstream and in the other channel) was to make an attainment to the bottom of a small eddy with a tree trunk sticking into it and climb up the tree trunk to the rock. You better believe I was motivated to get there fast too. The eddy wasn't big enough to hold my boat without me and there was nowhere to pull it up out of tyhe water. Without painters, my only option if I wanted to get to where I could see and help the student was to climb the tree trunk and let my boat drift down river, hoping the other instructors (who I had whistle signalled) would catch it. I did this and fortunately they got the boat (although I didn't know this until later). I climbed onto the rock and found my wife safe, but solidly stuck on a submerged rock. We got her off and then tandem paddled her boat (a Flashback outfitted solo) down to the rest of the group (note we were on a rock island in the center of the river).

After this incident I decided painters were required, but I also didn't like the idea of just stuffing rope under the bow plates where it could come out and tangle me. I've seen it coming out of drifting boats too often. I then discovered the MEC painter bag on a trip to Canada. This is a small bag you attach to your front thwart which contains 15ft of 1/4" polypro floating rope. The rope stays secure in the bag until you need it and I don't think I've ever had it come out unintentionally. It's fairly easy to access, although definitely not as easy as just stuffing the rope underthe deck plates. It's also pretty cheap - about $15 canadian I think. I can't find it right now on their website, but if you give them a ring (888 847 0770). I think it's just called the MEC Painter Bag and I know they recently had them in both the Vancouver and Ottawa stores when I visited them.

I also really like having the bow painter for tying the boat to trees when it is difficult, impossible or just annoying to drag it onto shore for lunch, scouting or something similar.

CHeers

Matt

PS. Don't forget to remove the knot from the end of the rope if you buy one of these! I agree that that is a safety hazard.

[sbroam]

I've always had painters on open boats and never on decked boats. I've never had a serious problem with them and they have often come in handy. It always has bugged me when they pop loose, so I've secured them with bungee on the decks (still come out occasionally) or with cord and a cord lock (more secure, less readily available). I figure the latter is better even from just a convenience stand point - a few extra seconds to deploy them once every other trip when needed is better than fooling with loose ones for who knows how long twice every trip. And I've always used floating rope - the smaller diameter yellow stuff from Bluewater is my favorite.

An alternative that comes to mind would be to keep two 15' lengths of rope secured to carabiners handy - that would let you make "instant painters" when needed. Now where to keep them...

[NEOC Slalom Rules]

Yesterday, while on a fun run with some novice WW paddlers, the question came up as to the origin of the term "painter". Along time ago, I had some brain cells wihich contained this information. I am now however, unable to reformat my hard drive and dredge them up. A query found this excellent thread on whether or not to use them. For the record, I do, and am also very wary of knots and entanglements possibilities. Enjoying life on the river is never without risk. So to find the answer, I've resurrected this thread. And to hear more stories of how they helped to hindered your miscues on the water.
Thanks
Pat

[madmike]

I also used a flooded boat and painter to pull me out of a bad spot, I could not swim out of.

[NEOC Slalom Rules]

Here's what I googled

Dear Word Detective: I am a canoe guide here in Colorado and have wondered for many years why we call the bow and stern lines (or ropes) on the canoe "painters." I had heard at one time that they were used to hang the boat so it could be painted, but I'm not buying that. Perhaps you can shed some light on this. -- Ward S. Sear.

Arrrr, and I'll not be buyin' it neither, matey. It boils my bilge to hear the silly stories those scurvy landlubbers cook up about life on the bounding main. A taste of the cat is what the mongrels deserve. Keelhaul the lot of 'em I say.

Sorry about that. You're correct in judging that story about "painter" unlikely.

There are actually three separate kinds of "painter" in English, three words that share a common spelling and pronunciation, but entirely unrelated meanings and origins. The first sort of "painter" is, obviously, someone who paints, whether it be a fine art painter or the guy who paints your bathroom. Another sort of "painter" is the North American cougar, in which case "painter" is simply a regional pronunciation of the word "panther" (possibly influenced by the French "panthere"). Ogden Nash's famous advice, "If called by a panther, don't anther," seems a suitable prelude for an exceedingly odd citation for this sense from none other than Davy Crockett, who wrote, in 1834, "This alarmed me, and I screamed out like a young painter." King of the Wild Frontier, my foot.

The third kind of "painter" is the line attached to the bow of a boat, used to moor or tow the vessel, although when the word first appeared in the 15th century it meant the anchor chain or line of a boat or ship. There seems to be several theories about exactly how English acquired "painter," but fortunately all roads seem to lead back to Rome, in this case to the Latin verb "pendere," meaning "to hang." One of the descendants of that verb was the Old French "pentoir," meaning "strong rope" or "clothesline," which certainly brings us into the "line for tying up a boat" ballpark.

And to think we owe the naming of our lines to the Romans.
Any other answers out there.

Pat

[MotorCityOC-1]

It's like deja vu all over again!

I started this thread over a year ago when I was trying to decide how to outfit my Phantom. There were some great responses both pro and con, but ultimately I decided to use a dedicated 70' throw bag turned painter on the bow, and a 12' painter on the stern. Then I did nothing- because it was easier- and have been happily paddling the boat w/out painters ever since without ever really missing them.

I like the idea of being able to swim relatively unencumbered into an eddy, and still have a hold of my boat. I also like the idea of a normal length painter on the other end for more routine uses. When I had my Ovation, I had bow and stern painters bungeed to the deck plates and they NEVER came loose unless I wanted them to. Prior to that I had kept them stuffed under the bag lacing (where they always came loose whenever the bags deflated a bit) which DID strike me as a potential hazzard and a definite nuisance.

As for the potential for entrapment posed by an errant painter, I think if the rope can only get out when you want it out, the benefits far outweigh the risks. Other than the, "How my painter saved the day" stories in this thread, near accidents rarely get written up. I suspect that if they did, the number of times a readily available painter has helped avert a serious problem would outnumber the times a bodypart has gotten entangled in one by at least 20-1.

Now if somebody would only get over here and install my big honkin' bow painter!

Now, why is a thwart called a thwart?

-Kevin

PS By all means, let's hear some more "How my painter saved the day" stories- or "painter of doom" stories. Whichever.

[Nessmuk]

The bumping of this thread reminded me that I used Jim Michaud's "painter around the rock" method to self rescue on the Deerfield Dryway earlier this year. I was swimming alongside the boat, saw a rock coming up, pulled out the painter and swam towards the other side of the rock, and met my boat in the eddy behind the rock. I was then able to climb onto the rock (still holding onto the painter) and back into the boat.

Never would have thunk of that if I hadn't read it here!

I should have mentioned that to you, Jim, when I met you at the Farmington putin on sunday (I was the guy in the Quake).

I am definately in the "pro-painter" camp. I keep my painters secured with bungees. Never had one come loose when I didn't want it too.

I've also used painters as a tow line- running the painter of another canoe through my rear grab loop, and tying it to my thwart with a quick release hitch- to tow a canoe across the river when a swimmer ends up on the other side.

[grinner]

I have a painter on the front of my savage skeeter. I use it when i'm getting on and off the back channels at holme perrepont. I found that i had to quickly grab the boat or go for a nice swim after it. Because i get out in some sytrange places then it helps. The eddies are strange becuase there narrow. I have also used the painter when i get out to strech my legs. Its easier to grap the painter and get the the concrete or grass bit then try and pull the boat up when i'm standing in algy ( i think thats how you spell it). When i first started there was a painter on the boat which i always used because the get in was old and if you werent carfull then the boat would go off or kayakers would move it away from the side . so they still have there users. Personally i was tought to use painters when getting in and out, but that kind of went when i was beeing lent a spanish fly because it was easier to just seal launch it in.

[eddyhops]

I guess since I missed the thread originally, I'll comment now!

I think it depends upon the boating.

Racing or playboating, they don't seem as necessary as they do on a creek or unfamiliar stretch of river that you may be toting your boat on.

If I'm in a rec boat, I have 'em... bow & stern. EXTREMELY helpful in self rescue on a creek. Some portages (or put-ins/takeouts) down here may require hauling up or lowering down a boat. There are occasions I have had to tie off because there was no bank to put the boat on.

All this, or maybe I'm just too lazy to take 'em off & put 'em back on every time I tie a boat down?

painters, painters... PAINTERS PEOPLE!!!

[Louie]

It is always good to have a rope with as is it to a knife. I've been on trip where the only rope to tie the boat on the shuttle truck were the painters. The cool people started not usin them in the mid 80's said they were a foot entrapment danger. They are only if you don't know how to store them. Many times I've swam to safety with a painter in my hand and was able to get the boat over to the bank before the drop took the boat.

[NSOC1]

Who is yarnellboat? I met someone in Ireland this summer who's name was Rick Yarnell. Could this be the same person or close relative?

Nate

[yarnellboat]

Yarnellboat is a painter-using class II-III OC recreational river-runner with some curiosity about stuff like C-1s, slalom and playboating. He's self-employed and surfs cboats.net etc. for coffee breaks when he's bored and lonely. He lives in Vancouver and whines about not having much a canoeing community in the region to help people try new stuff. But that's more than you wanted to know...

I wouldn't call Ireland close, but the guy you met could be a relative. One of my grandparents was from Ireland, so it's not a longshot, but I don't know much about it. I've only run across another Yarnell 2 or 3 times.

Pat.

[John Coraor]

Charlie Walbridge has every right to hate unsecured painters, but as many have noted here, it is possible to safely secure them (e.g. bungee, in a "painter bag," by using a throw bag in lieu of a painter). Back in my open canoe days I was taught another method that seems to have gone out of style: daisy chaining the painter and then tying the loose end to a thwart. If done properly a 15' painter is stretched tight in a chain from the bow or stern to the nearest thwart, seat or other tie-off point. It won't come undone until untied, but when untied will immediately unchain when pulled.

John

[ChrisKelly]

to make a loop around a tree to attach a rope that is being used in to pull off a pinned boat. I just pulled my painter off the bow and looped it around the tree. I make sure the painters are strong enough.
I agree that mostly they are just useful for hooking up te boats at lunch but in addition to the uses described above this is another.
I use 'em except when I am just out playing.
Chris Kelly

[dixie_boater]

Louie pointed out that painters are useful for tying boats down when somebody forgets to put ropes (or girlie ropes) in the take out vehicle. I have used my painter(s) to both tie boats to the racks and to the bumper. On a windy day I'll tie the boat to the bumper just to make sure it stays on the roof. It's awfully handy to pull the painter out from under it's bungee and tie the bow or stern to the bumper. I'm old school (FGOB) and I ain't got a boat shorter than 13 ft.

The best rope for painters is one that floats. They're easier to fish out of the water when they come loose. As Chris Kelly posted they are handy for setting a Z-drag anchor if they are strong enough to do the job. I've never gotten tangled up in a painter when taking the occasional swim, but then I keep my painters well secured. If it floats maybe a swimmer wouldn't get tangled up in it.