Zephyr adhesive issue!!!

[squeakyknee]

It is official, all 6 of my bag tie-downs have come loose.They didn't make it 3 trips,LAME!!!
Luckily I was able to secure the bags to the saddle and bulkhead,since they are pinned in by the twarts.
Now I'm worried for all you katz that got a Zephyr with straps.I have a feeling that the only way to secure to this stuff is to sand to the fibers and glass in anchor points like composite boats.I may try this so I'll let Ya know.

[CanoeBoy]

Jacques at esquif told me that the outfitting patches are applied under vacuum pressure and are set that way for three hours. I have a feeling that this adhesive may be more tempermental then any kind of vinyl adhesive we have all used.
Nick

[MotorCityOC-1]

which adhesive are we talking about here, the 3M DP8005- or something else?

did the boat come factory outfitted? Did you install the tie down patches yourself? If the latter, did you forget to do it in a vacuum for 3 hrs?

[squeakyknee]

Factory with the dp8005 stuff.Oh well

[ChrisKelly]

if they do then Twintex is the future of open boating.

Of course, for my money, glassing in tie down points is not a bad solution but I guess lots of folks do not want to or cannot work with glass/kevlar. BTW, have any Zythyr owners have problems with glass resin adhering to the Twintex?

If there were a Twintex Spark I'd buy it today even with the glue issues. Chris Kelly

[CanoeBoy]

Hey Guys, I spent some time talking to the sales manager at Esquif and i got the official instructions for DP-8005. They are kind of intense but it may provide some insight as to how to keep patches in. Please email myself at Nick@aldercreek.com or Niki at rekmann@telus.net to get a copy. I think everything is going to be a ok.
Nick

[ncdavid]

My boat was factory outfitted. The vinyl patches do not adhere well. Like squeeky's boat, mine has bulkhead outfitting, so the only vinyl patches I have are for the bags. I've redone the outfitting so that I don't need the patches. If I ever need to attach something to the boat that I don't want coming out, I'm heading for the sandpaper, resin, and epoxy.

[ChrisKelly]

This Twintex stuff seems like a wonderful material. I would not shy away from it because of the glue when I can attach stuff with kevlar and resin.

If I could buy a Twintex Spark today I would do it.

Chris Kelly

PS I understand that some people don't want to or know how to do glass but that is generally not the audience here.

[MotorCityOC-1]

Could part of the difference btwn Twintex's adhesion to minicell vs. vinyl patches be that the minicell bits offer more surface area with less outward stress?

With that in mind, maybe it would make sense to use a thin, lightweight, strong material as an intermediate layer btwn the Twintex and the vinyl patches. ABS sheets come to mind, say 1/8 or thinner. Or you could use 6mm neoprene, or whatever- anything that bonds at least a little bit better than vinyl to Twintex. If you made ABS patches that were 3, 4 or 5 times the size of the vinyl tie-down anchor patches, the increased surface area of Twintex-to-ABS might make up for some of the poor adhesion. Then use your favorite time-tested vinyl glue to stick the vinyl to the ABS. Hey Presto! Tie-in points and hull are reunited, without adding too much weight.

Theoretically. Feel free to try this out on your new $1,400 boat.

On my end, I'll run similar tests by using a small sheet of thick neoprene as an underlayment for the toe blocks I'm installing in my H3.