pivot turns

bearboater · Post by **bearboater** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 3:04 am

okay, so i have my pivot turns now so that i can get the bow up about 2 feet without a whole lot of work, and am able to control it as far as needed.
but my question is this: when doing an onside pivot turn, and you have a lot of speed, going into an offset where you have to turn about 90 degrees, is it better to do a combo pry/draw stroke, or one or the either?

I mean i was on a river just a few minutes ago, debating this my my head as well, and i tried it many times each way, and i found that both the braking action of the pry, and the bow draw were sufficient for the turn. with one, the bow draw, you just maintain a little speed, until the end of the turn when you pop out of it. and the pry stops the momentum completely, but then sets you up with a better pop, and as expected, the combo is in the middle.

any of you slalom boaters know which way as best, i can't really notice a big difference in split times. on a 40 second 7 buouy circuit.

cheers
-isaac

Bob P · Post by **Bob P** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:40 am

With speed, the best way to pivot turn is on a Duffek. Depending on your boat, you might have to lean back a little. Plant the paddle next to the cockpit or in front of it if possible, so that you are ready for a power stroke. You don't need a lot of height. The more "squirt", the more speed you'll lose unless you've got a very strong eddy.

bearboater · Post by **bearboater** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:38 pm

thanks bob p,
i tihnk i get your drift, i understand that the duffek is better with more speed to maintain, and the stern pry is better when there's no speed to really initiate the stern into the pivot.

im going to go and really try the different pivots for a few hours today. and see what happens
cheers
-isaac

Bob P · Post by **Bob P** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:52 pm

I've posted a short video showing some degrees of pivot, including one initiated with a short reverse sweep, plus some offside moves.
Pivots

Sir Adam · Post by **Sir Adam** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 1:54 am

You'll also see some pivot turns in the 'C Video' section at the top!

bearboater · Post by **bearboater** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 7:43 am

yes. thanks you sir adam, i have seen the many rotations done by sboram, yourself and company. however, i was looking to see the intitiation of the pivot, and unfortunately, i am unable to see the video posted by Bob P. my computer isn't wanting to read that format.
I think it just takes time, and practice where i devote my thought to that function, and then i am able to feel the stern sink easier with more offside lean, and a farther back stroke.

cheers

-isaac

Bob P · Post by **Bob P** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 11:03 pm

RealPlayer for most operating systems is available here for free.

Converted: Here it is in Quicktime format

bearboater · Post by **bearboater** » Mon May 01, 2006 3:12 am

thanks alot for the video, and secondly the conversion into the avi. I have a mac, and not the windows media player.
that makes it alot easier to see the initiation of the pivot, especially the combo, stern pry/bow draw. it looks like you push the edge and boat down when you do the stern pry pivot? I think that is where i was failing, i was just leaning, and shifting my weight, instead of pushing off of the paddle and getting my shoulders over the other edge of the boat. intimidating, but it makes sense.
thanks alot
cheers
-isaac

Alden · Post by **Alden** » Mon May 01, 2006 11:55 am

Isaac,

that sounds like a question for the ages - pry, or draw? You might want to check out an article called "Two Trips to the Top" (the Oliver Fix part of it). Not sure if you have seen it, but it speaks to some of the questions you brought up. This article peeled my skull back the first time I've read it. I've read it hundreds of times since. Go to:

http://www.daveyhearn.com/Coaching/Tech ... _files.htm

Then click on "Two Trips to the Top" and go to the Oliver Fix section. Very interesting . . .

"Every situation was unique. There were thousands of situations. I can’t
conceive of a specific situation that I could put in a box. It’s more of a sense you have to acquire as to how you can keep up your speed. First, you start out doing a move without thinking about it. Then you time it. Then you try it with a backstroke. You have to learn versatility . . . You have to put people into different situations so that they can figure it out, learn how it feels. Yes, there may be rules for certain kinds of gates. But you want to learn how to short-cut the rules."

Alden

Matt Fritz · Post by **Matt Fritz** » Mon May 01, 2006 2:39 pm

Below is a link with several good videos of pivot turns as well as alot of other slalom techniques.

http://www.slalomtechnique.co.uk/

Also, should I be able to pivot an Atom? I weigh 180 lbs.

Matt

KNeal · Post by **KNeal** » Mon May 01, 2006 3:32 pm

Yep, an Atom can stern pivot fairly easily, both on a duffek stroke and on a stern pry (though it takes REAL good technique to stern squirt the boat).

KNeal

Bob P · Post by **Bob P** » Mon May 01, 2006 8:57 pm

I've slowed down some of my pivot video here.

bearboater · Post by **bearboater** » Tue May 02, 2006 6:09 am

thanks alot bob, you have been exceptionally helpful in this inquiry

that really helps to get the beginning of the pivot down, do you lift your inside knee consciously? or is it just that the outer knee drops, and therefore the knee comes up, i have tried it both ways, and only on my onside pivots do i really notice the difference(pulling up with inside knee=better or higher).
cheers
-isaac

Bob P · Post by **Bob P** » Tue May 02, 2006 11:47 am

I've been paddling "pivot" boats so long (and I'm so tight in the boat), that it's not a matter of lifting or pushing on anything any more.

The boat tilts because that's what I will it to do...

I'm semi-serious here. Leans are done with the torso, not by applying pressure with the legs.

bearboater · Post by **bearboater** » Tue May 02, 2006 7:38 pm

maybe i need to get more outfitting nearer to my knees, because lately, i have begun to be able to move them about 1/2 to 1/4 of an inch, just enough to feel a little uncomfy, but comfortable enough to not worry too much. the bumber is my high straps are way tight, and still i can lift my knees, i guess i'll just make some shims, and add until they lock me in.
also, are your knees very wide?
at 6'2 and 190, i am only able to get my knees about 8 inches maybe 8.5 apart before i have tons of pressure from the cockpit rim.
cheers
-isaac

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