Zephyr update

[billcanoes]

well _ decided while driving home from work, that I would take the time to do it this week.

I'll take some pics but I was just going to-clean both surface sand the hull some, mek the hull - weldwood to the hull- I notice weldwood to plastic or hull dries much slower than weldwood to foam, allow to dry second coat to hull- wait 10 min

then mek to vinyl- then vynabond - a light coat should dry within a minute or two- as its drying heat the hull -the non stick surface of the vinyl will be cool to the touch and the vynabond side should be just about dry- and I'll just stick it to the hull- the way I've always looked at it is if the hull's coat is dry then the hull will be safe

I plan on letting it dry for a day and I'm going to try to pick the boat up by the anchor- I figure that should be a fair test to see if it will hold.

My goal is complete by Thursday. 8/10


Bill

[Scott R]

Another question Bill, where do you buy methyl ethyl ketone at, is it something that I should be able to find at a local hardware store or do I have to order it?

Scott

[billcanoes]

Lowes sells it $10-$14 about a half gallon- I bought it 3 years and still have a lot left- and have used it on probably 14 or more boats- its just basically faster drying acetone- I personally think especially on a vinyl anchor it helps the vynabond bond, by breaking down the surface of the dring a little- I did poor it on the hull to try to clean glue one time and ended up wiping it up really quickly because it was eating the melting the vinyl layer.

So I just put a little on a paper towel and wipe the area. I've used it without gloves installing I think 8 drings and my skin split (so where gloves- you absorb the chemicals through your skin too) The older I get the more I realize how silly I was not taking better precautions on my first boat projects)

I'm sure there are a lot more people with more experiance than I- I've only been doing this a few years- I've just had a lot of boats in that time.

Bill

[billcanoes]

(I'm sure there are a lot more people with more experiance than I- I've only been doing this a few years- I've just had a lot of boats in that time. )



When I typed the above I was leading into adding -

so if other people have additional tips/advice please share them

[Scott R]

Bill thanks for all the tips on reattaching the tiedown and let us know how it holds.

Edit:

I decided to check the rest of the tiedowns and all but one are starting to come loose. I have 4 that are starting to pull up just under where the webing is sown onto the vinyl and one that is about half way up. I have only had the Zephyr for about 2 months now but it has seen lots of rolling pratice which I'm guessing is what is aiding in the tiedown failures.

[ChrisKelly]

for attaching thigh strap tie down points I mean. I have never had the glue itself fail on Royalite or Royalex. I have broken the d ring holders but the glue itself held (and was a bitch kitty to remove).

I have no sense of whether it will bond with the new material.

Chris Kelly

[billcanoes]

Well The vinyabond to the weldwood failed instantly- I left the vynabond on the anchors and added a layer of weldwood to the anchors and a layer of weldwood to the hull (3 total)

Unfortunately, when smoothing the anchor it still didn't feel like it should on a royelex hull

so I don't think my bright idea will be asuccessful one.

BTW I did use new anchors too because it looked like the ones supplied were separating internally.

What I don't understand is weldwood seems to hold to foam so well on this hull- does it need to be vynabond to vinyabond? I thought the vinyabond melts into the vinyl of the anchor and top coat of royalex- but I assumed glue would stick to glue- I don't think the vynabond will stick to the twintex- so is it possible a 3rd glue is needed between the two or am I being crazy? Anythoughts

Bill

[MotorCityOC-1]

My thought, once again, would be to see how well DP8005 works for glueing ABS to Twintex. Do a little test patch, and if it seems to work well, try glueing d-ring anchor-sized patches of 1/8 ABS to the hull with DP8005. Then use Vynabond to glue the vinyl anchor patches to the ABS. Hey Presto, a time consuming, labor intensive solution- but one that's still fairly lightweight and at least partiallly tried and true.

[billcanoes]

Yep- the vinyl patch failed- I didn't want to pull it, it was laying there nice and flat and even looked good, but a test is a test.

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http://cms.3m.com/cms/GB/en/0-131/kkrzcFW/view.jhtml

Motorcity
very nice idea- I guess I'll see how expensive the glue /plastic weld is, and debate that- no anchors, or a dring- above the water line- but that might look too hooptified.

Bill

[creek1r]

Vynabond ONLY works for vinyl to vinyl applications by melting both sides together. It is not a contact cement. Will not work for twintex or bare abs to vinyl. The inside and outside of a royalex boat is a thin vinyl bonded to each side of an abs sheet/foam/sheet sandwich. Thats why Vynabond will work. Some Royalite boats dont have a vinyl inside layer, therefore Vynabond does not work. Hope this will prevent useless and messy experimentation.

[Wendy]

I had a prototype prelude that this was used to bond the vinyl to the plastic boat- worked great. If my Zephyr outfitting loosens I will be using this.
http://www.stealth316.com/2-dp8005.htm

[Scott R]

Question, would dp-8005 be able to be used directly between the hull and the tiedowns?

[Wendy]

and never came loose.

[Sir Adam]

a note on MEK - it is also used as the "hardener" for vinyl and polyester resin systems, and is ONE OF THE MOST HAZARDOUS AND DANGEROUS CHEMICALS we work with. A splash in an eye and you can be blind for life. It's that nasty. Not good for the environment either. So PLEASE always where appropriate safety equipement when working with MEK (and other chemicals), including proper gloves, clothes, and definitely safety glasses.

It's a lot tougher to pick out the rocks in the river if you have no depth perception because your blind in one eye....

[MotorCityOC-1]

creek1r,

Vynabond ONLY works for vinyl to vinyl applications by melting both sides together. It is not a contact cement. Will not work for twintex or bare abs to vinyl.

I hadn't thought of that. What about Staybond? What does one use to glue vinyl patches to non-vinyl coated Royalite?

For that matter, I meant to suggest using 3M 38whatever (the two part epoxy typically used for glueing ABS to ABS) for glueing the ABS patches to the Twintex hull. I'm pretty sure it's cheaper than DP8005, but it's probably worth trying both ways.