different rolls

[bamaboater]

I have a decent onside roll that I picked up from Thrill of the Paddle book. recently, I've found some other roll styles and this one I can't seem to comprehend. Is this offside? I'm making it harder than it is, but maybe staring at the computer screen to see it takes away from the dimension underwater.

If anyone can offer up suggestions I would be appreciative

http://www.dogwoodcanoe.com/images/allysonrolls.avi

[fez]

it seems to me that this is the "normal" roll (a least for most of us...) done in the way it is teached in TOTP.

Maybe you got confused because her onside is on the left and yours perhaps on the right side ?

Here you can see a vid where Matt is doing first a offside-roll and second a "normal" onside-roll:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adHrpKnyAgs

Greetings Frank[/url]

[yarnellboat]

By "onside roll" do you mean that flip over to your onside and then roll back up?

Perhaps the only difference is that she is flipping to her offside and then sweeping under the boat, which Thrill of the Paddle also addresses.

Her finish is a normal low-brace roll on her onside, no difference that I can see, other than she's pretty quick.

If you've got an over-and-back-up roll on your onside, definitely start flipping to your offside and try coming under, because if you have a roll, your low brace is good is good and you won't flip to your onside as much.

PY.

[bamaboater]

I do an offside more naturally than onside for some reason. Actually I hardly roll to my onside because of a lowbrace. Her being left handed and me opposite trying to copy that sweep was messin me up. I don't sweep but keep the paddle parallel to the offside gunnel on the outside.

[yarnellboat]

I was at the pool with her tonight - she sculls into her 90degree set-up position with her blade already in a low brace position; so when she gets to the set-up, she doesn't need to flip her blade (she does it earlier, on her front air bag or somewhere under there)and can go straight into rolling.

I think it's more common to come under the boat in a high brace grip/position? But some people like flipping to a low brace earlier because it's faster.

I don't know if I could figure out how to twist up my wrists for that, but I should give it a try.

P.

[ChrisKelly]

we roll op on the side that we normally paddle on; that is is immaterial which way we flip.

I have never "gotten" the off side roll. I know it is a High brace roll but when I am upside down I always becuse discombobulated. I can roll my glass boat on the "off side" but I just switch hands and use a normal roll. Well, I say I can do it. I have done it but it is completely unreliable. Chris Kelly

[Tiggy]

yeah the high brace roll looks painful. you really do want your arms to be in a push up position so you dont work your shoulders. Quite honestly, you can do your onside roll just as quick by sweeping under the boat. I just lean forward and pin my nose on the bow deck, well thats exagerated, this gets me oriented. Also, use as litlle paddle as possible, the roll is done with the rocks in my head and a good hip snap. Try it without your paddle

[yarnellboat]

In the posted video there is no high-brace or offside roll.

She's doing as you say Tiggy: coming under the boat on her bow deck, and doing a low-brace roll.

The difference is - when coming under the boat and "sculling" out to the set up, (I think) most people use a high-brace scull; but the roller in the video goes from her bow to her set up with her paddle already flipped to a low-brace position.

Not that you can actually see which face is which in the video. I recently had someone (Al Greve) trying to describe this to me on a forum (CCR), so it came up in conversation and Alyson (in the video) said that she too flip her blade to a low-brace before she gets to her set up.

PY.

[squeakyknee]

What about a Hand Roll???
I got 9 or 10 in a row bare handed. now that is a strange roll. it relies on a solid hipsnap and and upperbody movement and has nothing to do with bracing whatso ever... I'll try to get Video of it soon.
As far as onside vs. offside. I HAVE gotten an "offside"roll twice in actual boating but couldn't begin to explain how. The will to NOT swim overcame the complexity of "figuring "it out. I just did it without thought. Prolly couldn't repeat it without getting WORKED in the hole above Hellhole on the Gauley again...

[Jan_dettmer]

An off-side roll can be a simple low brace roll but on the off-side with the paddle sweeping to the bow. Then when you come up, you can finish in a cross-forward stroke. Done correctly, it does not put substantial stress on the shoulder. The high brace off-side roll (also the onside h-b roll) I would only do in a hole when the water helps.

I think it is more important to have a bomber roll than having multiple rolls. Don't worry about different rolls unless you master one. Hand-roll is an exception it's kinda nice to have it in case you loose your paddle. But it is really only good in smaller boats. It may not be very reliable in a bigger canoe.

Cheers, Jan

[yarnellboat]

On the bright side - the one time in a hole that I lost my paddle but stayed in the boat and considered a hand roll, when I reached out to set up to try a hand roll - in a big boat and something I'd never practiced - my paddle came right into my hands! So it's worth trying!

P.

[John Coraor]

I agree with Jan. An "off-side" roll, which is typically rolling up on a cross low brace, is fun to practice as something different, but usually not reliable enough to use on the river. I have never used one on rivers while paddling C-1. However, I have never used a hands roll on a river either.

However, when my wife an I paddled C-2, we used to roll with a combination of a regular low brace roll and a cross low brace roll. We started out with my wife doing the cross roll in the stern, because I had the stronger regular low brace roll. However, after swims on the Ottawa and the Kennebec where big water interfered with our timing, we switched to my doing the cross roll in the bow and my wife did a regular roll, which was preceded by her rapping me on the hip just before she swept out. That helped us to always be in sync.

Now that I'm too old, fat, and lacking in needed flexibility, I no longer do either cross or hand rolls. When I tried rolling C-2 with my oldest son recently, I noted that 2 regular low brace rolls on the same side (we both paddle left in C-1), when initiated by the sternman with same "timing tap" on the bowman's hip, make for a very powerful roll. Although switching hands takes a little longer to set-up, both my son and I found it easier to roll the C-2 together than for each of us to roll C-1.

John

[ChrisKelly]

in Upper Mash on the LG.

I was stern in a Caption with a woman who had not paddled much canoe but was a good kayaker. We flipped. She came out. Then I rolled. Nothing better than leaving a kayaker 4 rocks up in Upper Mash! Chris Kelly

[Jim P]

That's SOP when my wife is in the bow. She refuses to learn to roll so I just tell her - OK if we flip, hang on to your paddle and I'll meet you in the eddy. So far its worked out well and we are still married!

Funny, after each swim she says - yea I think I'll go the pool with you this winter, then winter comes and she stays home.

[jnorto01]

I used to sweep out in the high brace position and then flip the blade before hip snapping, which I think is standard operating procedure. Last winter in the pool I learned to twist my wrist and do the sweep in low brace the whole way. It feels really awkard at first but once you get it, it is THE way to go. My roll was drastically improved as a result. To do this, as soon as you go into the tuck turn your grip hand so that your palm and fingers face into your stomach. When you start to sweep turn the thumb side of the grip hand down towards the bottom which angles the blade to make it plane to the top surface. When you get perpediclular to the boat hip snap as normal. I think the main advantage is that the roll gets integrated into one fluid motion. It eliminates the little time lag between the sweep and the snap were the blade gets flipped into low brace from high. It was at this point were I would lose the planning action of the blade and it would sometimes sink fouling my roll. Give it a try. It will feel very strange at first but is worth learning