different rolls

[Walsh]

What about a Hand Roll???
I got 9 or 10 in a row bare handed. now that is a strange roll. it relies on a solid hipsnap and and upperbody movement and has nothing to do with bracing whatso ever... I'll try to get Video of it soon.

This would be great!! My question is what the "upper body movement" is, exactly. I have a highly reliable low-brace C-1 roll (in Squeaky's old Switch, infact) but absolutely no hand roll.

I have a lot of upper body strength relative to my body weight. From the setup, I use the hip snap to get my torso over the paddle, and then drive down hard on the low brace and throw my head to my offside. It's a real paddle-centered muscle roll for me. Now, I look at the fluidity of the K1 roll, and it seems there must be a way to make this stroke smoother and less violent.

Any tips?

[Jan_dettmer]

Tips? Sure.
Don't focus on strength but rather technique. have you ever done the excercise where you grab the side of the pool or another persons bow to roll up?
The handroll can be done exactly the same. It also helps to take one of those kick-boards to begin with.

Then, another trick is to use two strokes. kick your off-side hand first, then slightly offset the other one. Keep your upper body very low and the head in the water as long as you can. sweep you whole upper body forward and onto the deck.

There is other hand rolls as well. One of them is a back-deck roll. I hate coming up on my back deck b/c it loads the stern.

Hope this helps. Cheers, Jan

[Jim P]

Not that I can do a hand roll but something I learned from Jay R was to use a smaller and smaller paddle - try rolling with a little kids paddle. Once you master that you know you have gotten over the muscling of your roll. If you muscle the roll it ain't gonna work in many combat situations.

[msims]

Amen to that! My roll sucks in current. Why? I muscle it... I might try the kiddie paddle... cuz my hand roll seems to be an excercise to dive to the riverbed... (?)
..but we're off topic....that's an onside low-brace roll!

[bamaboater]

hey folks,
thought this tread may have died out, but I've just got to surfing the forum again and have seen that it has picked up many replies.

So, thanks for contributing.

Also, does anyone think posting some roll videos on this site somewhere could be of any benefit? I think it would.

anyway, thanks and keep the tips coming!

[Walsh]

OK, second time in the pool this winter with the Switch c1 and rolling is getting smooth and easy. Very little paddle dive; even hit a ghetto offside roll.

BUT: I still have a crappy, unreliable muscle roll in my Skeeter. I've spent hours working on the roll, added to the thigh bulkhead, and but in hip grabbers. I had no problem rolling an Ocoee and a Rival that I tried this summer. I've DONE my homework and I'm still getting a D!

Now, when I outfitted the Skeeter, I wasn't too flexible, and made the saddle 10.5". I can now tolerate a 5.5" saddle for moderate periods of time . . . would taking an inch or two off the Skeeter saddle make rolling easier?

Jon

PS: Tangentially, my girlfriend/tandem partner's first time in a solo boat, period, was two Saturdays ago, in the c1. She threaded her way around the crowded pool pretty well. No hesitation on the offside stuff. I talked her through the roll as best I could, and we worked on the low brace and hip snap until she got tired. Oh, yeah, she got pretty good at carping for air. I was happy she was there, but not overly impressed. Figured this miht be a long project.

She got back in the c1 this Saturday, practiced to or three hip snaps holding my hands, and then hit a roll. For the next hour, she hit every roll she attempted on the first or second try. She take a while to set up, but the rolls are graceful - her blade stays on the surface. I'm only slightly more pleased than I am jealous. She's going to be beter than me . . .

PPS: I'm also in the market for another c1, because as much as I like the Switch, Marissa may never give me a chance to paddle it

[keez]

Jon,
There's a pretty good thread on rolling on the Boat Werks boater board, as well a couple of video clips. You may want to check them out if you're still having problems.
You mentioned hip pads in your Skeeter. Would it be possible to post a picture of them. I'm looking to put some in my Spanish Fly.
Thanks in advance for your assistance.
Geoff

[boatbuster]

I have seen people sweep and then flip the paddle blade which doesn't make much sense to me. If you follow his instructions and cock the wrist of your shaft hand down as you sweep around under water it will automatically drag your blade to the surface which is where you want to start your roll.

I think that is what the paddler in the video at the beginning of this thread is doing. BTW, I find that it is easier to roll up having flipped to my off side and swept around than it is to come back up after flipping on my on side. The reason: When you sweep all the way around it is like winding up a spring (your torso muscles) to the max before initiating the roll.

[NateOC]

Well, I guess I have to ask this:

I've noticed some people do an onside OC/c-1 roll with their T-Grip hand pointed up, as if doing a low brace. Then I've also seen people do it where they have their t-grip hand facing down (palm towards the bottom of the river/pool).

I've always done it the second way. Where I twist so that my nose is on the same side of the paddle my knuckles are on. But in the video, I see that Matt did his onside roll so that he stayed in a low brace position the whole time.

I guess the advantage to how I've been doing it, is that when you come up, you are ready to take another stroke.

Is there a correct or more common way of holding your t-grip hand?


Nate

[boatbuster]

Sounds like you are rolling with the thumb on your T-grip hand pointed toward your stomach. I learned to roll with my thumb pointed out, toward the bow of the canoe. With the low brace roll I do, you come up on the non-power face of the paddle. That is not a problem as long as I use a flat blade, but folks who use a spoon blade lose some power doing a low brace roll, unless they flip the blade over. I guess it does not matter, whatever works for each boater.

[yarnellboat]

If I may summarize...

The video just raises the question of whether you sweep to your set-up in a high-brace or low-brace grip. I think most people learn a high-brace sweep, and then flip to roll up on the low brace. But some claim advantages to switching to the low-brace grip earlier, under the boat somewhere, before you sweep out to the set-up.

The advantages of sweeping in a low brace seem to be that it raises your blade to surface more readily, and you can move into rolling immediately. The disadvantage is that many aren't taught it that way, so have to play with cocking their wrists differently.

Both rolls are low-brace rolls (thumb towards the bow), the only difference is the orientation of the blade during the sweep.

Whether you do a low-brace roll, which is the traditional canoe roll and I think most people do, or a high-brace roll (knuckles up. thumb towards chest) is a separate question. While the high-brace roll is probably common in C-1s in holes, some say it's riskier for the shoulders in bigger boats and/or flatter water.

All work (so I hear), depending on the boat, boater and situation.

PY.