I am officially humbled

ohioboater · Post by **ohioboater** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:14 pm

Was feeling pretty good about myself after batting 1000 for combat OC rolls on my most recent river trip. Then I hopped in a friend's Atom last night in the pool. Lots of fun to paddle, but boy is that thing a &*$# to roll. Swam a bunch of times, only rolled successfully a few times, and one of those I kept right on going and windowshaded to my offside. Apparently, my technique still needs some work. And here I figured a C1 would be easier to roll than my hog of a Probe.

Regarding outfitting - how many C1 paddlers use footpegs or some other way to brace into the straps? And what else is different with rolling a C1 vs open boat, other than not having to sweep your head all the way to the far gunwale once you're up?

KNeal · Post by **KNeal** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 3:39 pm

I paddle an Atom that I've had for ages and never had a roll problem with it. It has the standard Dagger pedestal and outfitting in it. I added padding inside and outside the knees to keep from slipping forward, and that's it. I do recommend adding a couple of inches to the backrest to help keep you in the saddle.

Try to think of yanking the boat under you at the hip snap (and do it forcefully and quickly) instead of rolling the hull flat, dragging your head over the gunwales. See if that makes a difference.

And the Atom is a FINE c-1 for anyone weighing in the ball park of 170-190 lb. (personally speaking

)

KNeal

Jim Michaud · Post by **Jim Michaud** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:13 pm

Regarding outfitting - how many C1 paddlers use footpegs or some other way to brace into the straps? And what else is different with rolling a C1 vs open boat, other than not having to sweep your head all the way to the far gunwale once you're up?

I paddle with my toes pointing towards each other so in my C-1s I cut a hole under my seat to stick my toes into. This works great in my C-1s because if I have to exit I just slip my toes out and there's nothing in back of my feet to prevent me from sliding out from under my thigh straps.

Jim

yarnellboat · Post by **yarnellboat** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:34 pm

I had the same humbling going from my Outrage to my Score. There's some discussions here:
http://www.cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic. ... score+roll

I think the differences are - 1) less "roll" and more "snap", be short & quick in the C-1; 2) don't worry as much about finding your familiar 90degree set-up position so much, it just feels different in a smaller boat, like the boat follows you around; and 3) You might have to adjust what you do with your top elbow if it gets in the way of your finish.

Basically, minor adjustments - it just takes a little time for the different feel to kick in.

PY.

summer · Post by **summer** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:43 pm

When I started rolling a C1 after having an OC1 roll I noticed I had to delay bringing my head up longer in the C1. I now have issues switching between them since I believe the OC1 roll is a slower roll where the C1 has a much faster snap.

I roll an Outrage and an Atom, I feel better form is requiured on the Atom than the Outrage.

My Atom does not have any foot bracing.

Brent

Paddle Power · Post by **Paddle Power** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:11 pm

When I paddle C1, I don't use footpegs but I do have 1/4 inch foam installed where my feet rest. It offers some friction.

Many other good points already mentioned.
yanking the boat under you
feels different in a smaller boat, like the boat follows you around
quick in the C-1, OC1 roll is a slower roll

good luck

ohioboater · Post by **ohioboater** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:15 pm

Good info - next time I'm at the pool, I'll try the various suggestions in everyone's replies.

Kneal - I wasn't busting on the Atom at all. I liked it a lot and actually am looking forward to trying it in some real water. It just was a suprise how much trouble I had with the roll. Total opposite of what I expected.

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:22 pm

Let me guess... your butt kept coming off the seat. I've had the same problems in the past in C-1's because in an OC1 my feet are locked in the pegs and knees/thighs are pinned... without having your derire glued to the pedestal you where basically coming out of the boat and you couldn't hip snap. This is why I use lap-belts in my C-1's (not that I recommend them). Am I close?

NateOC · Post by **NateOC** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:48 pm

I strongly aggree with what Yarnellboat said. Rolling the OC is more of a smooth motion, where you have to wait for things to catch up with you. After rolling my open boat for about a year, I tried an acrobat in the pool the other day, and found it was a much faster roll, and much more about the fast hip snap than anything else.

Nate

ohioboater · Post by **ohioboater** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:07 pm

Craig Smerda wrote:Let me guess... your butt kept coming off the seat. . . Am I close?

You betcha. That's why I was asking how people kept themselves in their outfitting. Though I think I was probably failing, too, because of being too used to the slow movement of the OC (and the extra secondary stability once you're partway up). And maybe just some bad technique

Mike W. · Post by **Mike W.** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:19 pm

ohioboater wrote:
Craig Smerda wrote:Let me guess... your butt kept coming off the seat. . . Am I close?
You betcha. That's why I was asking how people kept themselves in their outfitting

I had the same problem when I switched from my Probe to my Cascade. I removed the back-rest & made one that was 6" above the seat. The Dagger backrest is 3" thick so 3" minicell is perfect. Be sure to smooth out the top & back corners so it'll be easier on your skirt.

About foot-pegs, you don't need them. I got back into OC last summer & just slid the pegs back out of the way. Rolling was not a problem...cleaning gates on the other hand...

KNeal · Post by **KNeal** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:09 pm

Kneal - I wasn't busting on the Atom at all. I liked it a lot and actually am looking forward to trying it in some real water. It just was a suprise how much trouble I had with the roll. Total opposite of what I expected.

No offense taken. I was actually making an oblique jab at a fellow cboater here in Richmond who referenced the Atom as

better planters

in an earlier post

KNeal

RodeoClown · Post by **RodeoClown** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:28 pm

I've found that a backband in the C-1 works really well to hold me into my outfitting- though sometimes it does slide down under my butt (usually the result of a trying a loop and crashing). I definitely noticed a difference between the backband and a foam back on the saddle- the backband just holds me in tighter, even when it does slide down. I've resisted the urge to put in a seatbelt, since my thighstrap set up is already a deathtrap (a deathtrap with a quick release, but still a deathtrap.

Actually, in my OC-1 I find that I can lift my butt off the saddle MORE- Maybe I need some more foam further up on my thighs. But I at the same time, I can push my knees up into the bulkhead, so I've still got good control

NateOC · Post by **NateOC** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:49 pm

I'd be a little hesitant in putting a backband in a C boat personally, because it seems like your feet could get tangled in straps or cords since you have to slide under/over it anytime you had to wet exit.

Nate

RodeoClown · Post by **RodeoClown** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:13 am

There's really very little free or loose strap- there's not really much that my feet could get tangled in. I've found that it's easier to get my feet in and out than it was with the big foam hip grabber/backrest combo I used to have, since I can push it out of the way. But you're correct, the more outfitting you have, the harder it is to get out, and the more chance there is you'll snag on something.

C-Forum

I am officially humbled

I am officially humbled

OC1 and C1 Roll

thanks

yep

Re: yep