havin some boatin issues.........Any Help Please?

[bamaboater]

hello folks, hope all are well. I got a situation that needs some input from other canoe paddlers out there, since I'm the only one in my little paddling group that canoes.
I've been paddling oc1 for about 5 years in an ovation, which is my original oc. I felt pretty efficient in that boat and was comfortable in my skills and in the boat to run many of the LRC runs and creeks as well as other big rivers in the SE, like the Ocoee, Pigeon, etc. From my recollection, I don't think I've ever been in a situation where I was not up to the skill level to paddle whatever I was running, i.e. Johnnies Creek, in my ovation.
Now, fast forward to this fall and winter. I bought a Prelude from a guy this fall and have been giving it my all to paddle, but to what seems like no avail. I feel like I'm regressing instead of progressing. The prelude is completely different from my ovation, I understand that, but what is the deal. It feels like I'm going to dump in every turn or eddy grab I make and technical creek moves have become nearly impossible without the sketchy feeling of dumping. I did do some modification to the prelude, mainly boring out the bulkhead, I'm 6'4"/215lbs, to get my legs in it and also removed the footpegs, to get my big butt 13's tucked under my butt. My roll hasn't changed, so I feel comfortable in flat water, but the preludes straps have the buckles, which completely freak me out in whitewater, because of the "what if" factor of not getting up and not being able to find the buckle to exit. I'm not sure I haven't cleaned out the bulkhead enough to spread my knees out and get a better sense of balance, because I still feel topheavy.
Anyway, I feel like I'm a safe and competent river and creek runner but the frustration from paddling this prelude has taken it's toll on me.
Should I back off the prelude for awhile and rebuild my confidence in the ovation? Keep paddling the prelude until one of us wins, the boat or me?
I know when the Ocoee opens back up this spring, I'll get multiple chances a week or so to get up there, but until then it's really convenient for me to hit LRC, because I'm only 30 min. away, and I love paddling LRC.

Does anyone have any experience with a Prelude? Particularly any of the bigger framed bodies out there?
Sorry for the super long post and I appreciate and welcome any input, suggestions or whatever to help me figure this out.

Thank you

[sbroam]

I don't have experience with the Prelude per se, but maybe can relate any how. I find that when I am in a boat where I'm at the top end of the weight range, stability/comfort levels become much more sensitive to saddle height and knee spread. In one boat I have, as little as a half inch in seat height makes a huge difference. In another boat, when I put on 10 pounds, it was like I didn't know how to paddle any more (made for a bad day on the Ocoee). So, get those knees out? Try lowering the saddle in small increments?

In some boats, extra weight sinks the edges more and makes them much more twitchy. I'm certainly no hot shot boater, but when my 220+# butt gets in a Zoom, embarrassingly, I barely make it out of the eddy without flipping. I'd like to think that is because I'm over the design weight (while I ignore the fact that Big Al can style in one! )

Also, search here on modifying the prelude hull - I think folks have flattened the bottom to make them more friendly.

[yarnellboat]

That's basically my feeling too . . .

From the little I've tried the small OCs like the Prelude, Zoom and Solito at my 210-215lbs, if I can fit my thick legs into the outfitting, it doesn't inspire much confidence for running even a moderate rapid.

With some water in the Solito, I could barely keep upright in the pool!

I've basically written off paddling little hulls like that.

A related problem for those boats, and C-1s, is that since my calves and thighs are relatively big (OK, and since I'm super inflexible), I can't be comfortable with a low saddle.

I'm still dabbling in the C-1 Score (after blowing out the cockpit rim) and hoping for the best, but with this weight/body, I doubt I'd invest in one of the little OC-s.

Hopefully there are other big-legged fat-boys who disagree?

PY.

[sbroam]

PY -

Keep at it with the Score - I love mine, though that is the boat that I had my "bad day on the Ocoee" in. It didn't help that I had jumped up to 230# about then and had a hydration bladder and throw rope on my back. Yikes. Back to a more normal 220# and without that cr@p on my back, it's a whole lot more friendly - and that is with a saddle at nearly 8".

I suspect my experiences with the "bathtub boats" (Quake, Skeeter) have been flavored more by my weight than anything.

Right now, the Zephyr is just right...

Scott

[Ed Eout]

BBoater, I feel your pain man. I suffered the same way switching from a soft chined boat to a OC1 Viper and again switching to a converted WS Z.

Here's what may be hanging you up: the P is a foot and a half shorter and 4 inches narrower, even though both boats are fairly soft chined, the P is a little firmer than O. Even though total rocker is close for both boats it's compressed in a much shorter length in the P.

Right, you know all this already because you looked at the hulls side by each. So how do you fix it? Sbroam is right, knees, get the seat as low as you can. But the only thing that finally worked for me was always paddling up on an edge. If paddling flat it's easy to trip over either edge, rocks on the downstream side and the funky currents nailing you from upstream. Burry one edge or the other and neither can get grabbed. Try exaggerating the boat heel for a few trips. Interestingly enough, an upstream heel is perfectly fine - as long as you are not crossing current with speed differentials! Your secondary stability will be in play constantly with boat heel. I was surprised what a difference this made.

Hope this helps.

[Atucky]

It'll obviously never be as stable and comfy as the ovation. I would also say that you are on the large side of this boat for big water at least. I'm sure there are some big guys who can paddle the prelude down big stuff, but I consider them freaks! haha. I (5' 10" 195) really enjoyed my prelude down creeks with low volume. As soon as I took it down Big South Fork at 2500, I felt like i was getting stern squirted much of the time. And got rid of it. I really should've hung onto it because I liked the boat so much. I'm just not the kinda guy who has the room for a dozen different boats.

Lowering the saddle as much as you can take it, and widening your knees is really the only thing you can do (you can only go so wide since the boat is so narrow). Correct me if I'm wrong someone?


Good luck, and if you want to get rid of it, I'm sure it won't be hard using this site.

AdamT

[Sir Adam]

The posts above are right on, and are much more knowledgable when it comes to your situation than I am regarding the Prelude.

That said, I do have one suggestion that I think you should seriously consider - redo those straps. You DO NOT want that on your mind while in serious water, you need to be able to focus.

Here's what I would do (and have done in the past):
1) Get to a pool, or water you don't mind wet exiting in (eddy, lake, whatever). Flip over, and try to get out. You may find it's a lot easier than you thought it would be - and you're all set
2) If you try the above, and have to fiddle with the buckles, seriously consider going over to a bulkdhead and footpegs, or whatever you liked in your Ovation. Then try the above again after retrofitting it.

In the end you need a boat that you can "wear", yet slip off like a sandal when need be for safety's sake. I can get out of all my boats except one in the fashion above, and that one I am aware of what I have to do, and stick to "easier" water (it's the master cut Acrobat, so even "easy" water can be *interesting*).

Good luck!

[Larry Horne]

adam's right ... it's a twitchy boat and you are freaked out (with good reason)about flipping. not a good combo. the only way you can have fun in a twitchy boat is to be 100% confident and not care if you flip. i'd say try what adam suggested first. then if that doesn't help,sell it and find something more comfortable! it's all about the fun factor...

a buddy of mine likes his prelude. but he did become captain of the swim team when he started paddling it!

[bathtuboy]

Not sure if I am going to be of any help but I absolutely love this boat, and was lucky enough to take to it pretty much straight away, though I am only around 170 lb and 5'9".

Getting your knees as wide apart as possible is really important, and I cut out quite a bit of the foam to do this. I actually raised the saddle after a while as I wanted to improve circulation.

I try and keep the blade active at all times when paddling which seems to help with stability. There is a little self indulgant video below of me paddling a Prelude.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87_qBovy9ag

Jon

[kanur]

I have been paddling my Prelude for 3 years and it is crucial to carve out enough foam to get your knees all the way out to the side of the hull.

Nice video Bathtuboy

[pdown2]

You should get in touch with AWC - http://www.atlantawhitewater.com/mambo/index.php - down in Atlanta. I believe the current President or VP has a Prelude and had the same problem with the outfitting. He used, I believe, an Atom saddle and completely redid the straps Mike Yee style. If anything you can take a look at what he did.

[dixie_boater]

Hey bamaboater,

The guy in ATL that paddles a Prelude with Dagger seat and straps is Chad Spangler. He is the president of the Atlanta Whitewater Club and a good friend of mine. If you want to get in touch I can give you his cell #. Drop me a PM.

Chad has a dual strap set-up he made himself. Works pretty well, but he had to bolt-in some of his anchors to get the straps down low enough. His outfitting has held up very well.

Michael

His picture is on the site http://www.cboats.net/util/fullsize.php?image_id=348 Note the large flat washer on the side of the boat were he bolted-in an anchor.

[Big Al]

Gracias Signor Broam but I can hardly consider what I do in my Zoom as "style"...it's more like swimming practice, something I've had a lot of in '06.
Of course, the Older I Get the better I was.

...(while I ignore the fact that Big Al can style in one! )

....

[bamaboater]

Thanks guys for the responses. I think I've found my recommitment in the youtube video. man, You are my Prelude idol.

I'm gonna stick with it. I think my plan of attack is to
1: get some new restraint system. Michael, thanks and I will be in touch with you about that boater's straps he put in his prelude. Plus, would like to meet some real boaters that are close to me.
2: will take probably an inch, to start, off the saddle to lower the center of gravity and also cut out some more around the knee holes.

Got to start hitting the local wave more too to stay comfortable.

In the meantime, I'll be making some turns in MT next week as my wife and I are traveling to ski. Then it'll be on after I get back.

I'll post progress reports and in the meantime, thanks again to you folks. It's great to be in the cboat community.

Spence

[boatbuster]

If the bulkhead outfitting is done right you should not need any straps. I agree with the recommendations. Carve out enough of the bulkhead so you can get your knees spread wide, and maybe consider re-installing the foot braces with a foam extension on the back of the seat if necessary.

I don't know much about the Prelude except I hopped in one once and felt it was just as tippy as my old Skeeter. I would be flatening the hull would help, as would leaning it slightly on one edge and keeping your paddle engaged at all times. All good advice above.