Advice please! Cascade, Atom or Godzilla
Moderators: kenneth, sbroam, TheKrikkitWars, Mike W., Sir Adam, KNeal, PAC, adamin
Advice please! Cascade, Atom or Godzilla
I'm an open boater interested in doing some closed boating. I haven't had the chance to paddle any C1's. I've got 3 options for inexpensive purchase: Dagger Cascade, Dagger Atom and Wavesport Godzilla outfitted as C1. I'm a river runner who surfs / hole rides when the opportunity presents. I'd consider myself a strong intermediate open boater. Advice / opinions would be appreciated!
Try all three.
I suggest that you buy all three and try them, if you can. If they are resonably priced you should have no trouble selling the ones that you don't want.
The Cascade used to be the work horse of the C boats, however, check the cockpit and skirt flange for cracks. If it is cracked, forget it. The Cascade is a high volume boat, very good on large flows. It is also good on the creeks because it is very durable. It is a magnet for holes, needs a good sized wave for surfing, and is reasonable to roll. Get it under the pour over and roll practice begins. Most open boats will sit for a spell while 90 degress to the current, the Cascade will not, you must watch your ferry angles. It is a lot of plastic, so it is heavy. Make sure that you can get a spray skirt for the Dagger C-1's. I have had three, one cracked at the skirt flange, one I sold because I did not want to see it go to waste, (went back to the open boat for the grandson), and the last one because of an accident. I would buy another one just to have around a good old reliable, if the price were right.
All of the boats you mention are old, so be carefull and mindfull of fatigue cracks.
The Atom is also a good all around boat, except for large flows. It is a low volume boat compared to most. However, I feel it is better suited for park and play or short, steep, creek runs. This boat will also make you acutely aware of planning angles. I have never heard a negative statement about the atom, it seems to hold it's own with all boats of it's class.
The Godzilla is a different story. I have never paddled one, but have been with lots of people who did. To make a long story short, they did not keep the Godzillas very long, and they always seemed to be rolling. I wish I could remember the jokes about them!
Good luck and enjoy.
The Cascade used to be the work horse of the C boats, however, check the cockpit and skirt flange for cracks. If it is cracked, forget it. The Cascade is a high volume boat, very good on large flows. It is also good on the creeks because it is very durable. It is a magnet for holes, needs a good sized wave for surfing, and is reasonable to roll. Get it under the pour over and roll practice begins. Most open boats will sit for a spell while 90 degress to the current, the Cascade will not, you must watch your ferry angles. It is a lot of plastic, so it is heavy. Make sure that you can get a spray skirt for the Dagger C-1's. I have had three, one cracked at the skirt flange, one I sold because I did not want to see it go to waste, (went back to the open boat for the grandson), and the last one because of an accident. I would buy another one just to have around a good old reliable, if the price were right.
All of the boats you mention are old, so be carefull and mindfull of fatigue cracks.
The Atom is also a good all around boat, except for large flows. It is a low volume boat compared to most. However, I feel it is better suited for park and play or short, steep, creek runs. This boat will also make you acutely aware of planning angles. I have never heard a negative statement about the atom, it seems to hold it's own with all boats of it's class.
The Godzilla is a different story. I have never paddled one, but have been with lots of people who did. To make a long story short, they did not keep the Godzillas very long, and they always seemed to be rolling. I wish I could remember the jokes about them!
Good luck and enjoy.
Interresting choice. I am not familiar with the 'Zilla; however, looking at some specs on line it appears to be a decent candidate for a conversion. The Atom and Cascade are different. The Cascade is a purpose built C1 that needs more water to make it come alive and thus, by reputation, is a real good big water boat. The Atom is a solid, fun, purpose built C1. I have one and like it just fine. It is edgy enough to keep my slalom skills stimulated and big enough I can pack some gear in it for a day on the river. The Atom front surfs like a dream and can be thrown into a stern squirt (pivot). Also, the Atom is well built. If you can get an Atom with the original hip blocks in it that is one I would pick of the three. The Cascade would be good to and also came with hipblocks. The nice thing with both is when you get tired of them, throw out the hull and keep the pedestal for a conversion. They can be fit into about any K1 out there.
I have an Atom
I've paddled the Atom a lot. Some like it, and for some it is a good boat. I've loaned my Atom out permanantly for others to learn to roll, I just do not like paddling it. It's heavy, slow, and does not side surf, add to that the impromptu stern squirts at an inopportune time. I'd suggest looking for a Wavesport Forplay, X, or z; whichever size suits you. Boats are not that hard to convert, I'm sure you can find lots of help here. I know I've not answered your question within the given critera, but I believe you'd be a lot happier with a boat that's more versatile (side surfs, holes, etc). Good luck, keep at it.
I'm still paddling my Atom I got back in '98 and like it just fine. It's great for front surfing, general river running, slalom-style paddling, and enders (stern squirts if you have really good technique). I like it alot for running the New River Gorge (done it as high as 6.8 feet, including surfing a HUGE wave at Enders 
), Upper and Lower Gauley, the Upper Yough, and many other rivers. I feel the boat is great for big water stuff, but not so good for creeking (fun on the Upper Gauley, not so fun on the Upper Yough--though that's probably just me 
). It does have quite a bit of plastic and is heavy around 40 lb.
Paddled the Cascade once and got out of it as quick as I could (simply because I also had my glass Viper with me.
Paddled a Godzilla c-1 and played at a park-n-play spot. Liked it a lot. It has a round hull, so you would be practicing a WHOLE lot of rolling while learning to balance in that boat. In my opinion, not a good starter boat.
My $0.02,
KNeal
), Upper and Lower Gauley, the Upper Yough, and many other rivers. I feel the boat is great for big water stuff, but not so good for creeking (fun on the Upper Gauley, not so fun on the Upper Yough--though that's probably just me ). It does have quite a bit of plastic and is heavy around 40 lb.Paddled the Cascade once and got out of it as quick as I could (simply because I also had my glass Viper with me.
Paddled a Godzilla c-1 and played at a park-n-play spot. Liked it a lot. It has a round hull, so you would be practicing a WHOLE lot of rolling while learning to balance in that boat. In my opinion, not a good starter boat.
My $0.02,
KNeal
-
ShawnJReese
- c
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2003 4:43 pm
- Location: Hartsville, TN
Go with the Atom
Go with the plastic Atom
I paddle mine on the Top Yough, Upper Yough, Upper Gauley, Lower Gauley, New, Cheat, Tellico, Noli, Upper Meadow, Ocoee, Cheoah, Lower Yough etc. Everywhere.
And yeah, it is heavier than a typical plastic kayak of that time period. So work out your upper body and develop some more strength. Do not forget your abs. Also consider a larger salom type paddle blade if you do not have one already. Stiffer the better.
You see the key in getting good at something is to stick to paddling one boat type and paddle the hades out of it. Then you realize it aint so much the boat, as it is skill and mastery of the paddler. So keep pushing yourself. I have taken alot of beatings, alot of swims.
Also, hook up with some kayakers and start running their lines.
Look for old school kayakers, guys in boats longer than 8ft. Their lines will work for you. Shorter boats will be much harder for you to follow at first. You will take a beating at first, but then you will start to improve.
100% pool roll and bomb proof combat(river roll) is important. Get into the pool and practice.
Outfitting is key - you should be in tight.
I converted to the Atom from a Mohawk Probe 11. I was able to combat roll the Probe, but got tired of coming up with +50lbs of water and getting my butt hammered in class IV.
Just my 4 bucks...
I paddle mine on the Top Yough, Upper Yough, Upper Gauley, Lower Gauley, New, Cheat, Tellico, Noli, Upper Meadow, Ocoee, Cheoah, Lower Yough etc. Everywhere.
And yeah, it is heavier than a typical plastic kayak of that time period. So work out your upper body and develop some more strength. Do not forget your abs. Also consider a larger salom type paddle blade if you do not have one already. Stiffer the better.
You see the key in getting good at something is to stick to paddling one boat type and paddle the hades out of it. Then you realize it aint so much the boat, as it is skill and mastery of the paddler. So keep pushing yourself. I have taken alot of beatings, alot of swims.
Also, hook up with some kayakers and start running their lines.
Look for old school kayakers, guys in boats longer than 8ft. Their lines will work for you. Shorter boats will be much harder for you to follow at first. You will take a beating at first, but then you will start to improve.
100% pool roll and bomb proof combat(river roll) is important. Get into the pool and practice.
Outfitting is key - you should be in tight.
I converted to the Atom from a Mohawk Probe 11. I was able to combat roll the Probe, but got tired of coming up with +50lbs of water and getting my butt hammered in class IV.
Just my 4 bucks...