This may seem like a lame_ss question, especially after seeing pictures of all those open boaters hucking falls at Louiefest, however my problem is this:
I now paddle a Spanish Fly after years in a Nitro, and am having trouble staying on a wave when the boat starts carving to my on-side (going right).
I've tried a stern draws, boat tilt and even an off-side draw, without much success.
Any suggestions or techinque tips would be appreciated.
Geoff
OC-1 surfing
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Craig Smerda
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some suggestions
It sounds like a stern draw issue. Mine is by no means text book but one thing to keep in mind, IMHO, the most powerful part of the draw is the sweet spot right next to the boat. What will often happen to me is I will be trying to draw the boat and nothing is happening until you get to that last little spot right next to the boat.
Anyhow a couple of suggetions would be to try the trick of having a friend hold a painter line in an easy current on a small wave, which should be easy with a boat such as yours this is suggested in drill time two and will give you the advantage of feeling what works and what doesn't. kent ford also talks about wagging the tail etc.try this mI think it really works, I used to try to muscle the boat around and found it doesn't work and just wears out your arm/shoulder. Wagging the tail, getting the blade in the sweet spot, and blade ange, all work much better.And as the previous poster suggested someone like paul or andrew westwood could evaluate your form and give you really good input.
Anyhow a couple of suggetions would be to try the trick of having a friend hold a painter line in an easy current on a small wave, which should be easy with a boat such as yours this is suggested in drill time two and will give you the advantage of feeling what works and what doesn't. kent ford also talks about wagging the tail etc.try this mI think it really works, I used to try to muscle the boat around and found it doesn't work and just wears out your arm/shoulder. Wagging the tail, getting the blade in the sweet spot, and blade ange, all work much better.And as the previous poster suggested someone like paul or andrew westwood could evaluate your form and give you really good input.
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Detonator Function
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I agree with kanu, everytime I correct as you explained, my draw is very far behind me, and my shoulders and torso are turned to prevent injury (hopefully). Usually though, I'm never staying straight in a wave... I'm always trying to flat spin.
One big piece of advice Eli told me was "the more aggressive you are, the better off you'll be." That has usually worked.
One big piece of advice Eli told me was "the more aggressive you are, the better off you'll be." That has usually worked.
Is this a rock I see before me?
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Jim Michaud
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Here's what works for me while surfing. When the canoe starts to turn to my on-side I lean the boat hard towards my on-side, almost putting the gunwale into the water. This almost always causes the canoe to curve back towards my off-side. 
I've never taken any canoeing courses so I don't know if this is an approved technique.
I found this out by experimentation and I'm not going to argue with success.
Jim
I've never taken any canoeing courses so I don't know if this is an approved technique.
I found this out by experimentation and I'm not going to argue with success.Jim
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OC1_SURFER
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The instant you feel you are loosing your bow to the right, cross over and set a stationary off-side draw with the angle of the blade at about 45 degrees to the hull (power face of the blade should be facing upstream). You will feel the pressure of the downstream current on the blade as your bow starts to swing back to the left. It normally only takes a second for the correction to take place. Once your angle is regained, go back to your on-side and power forward to get back to the sweet spot. Anticipation is the key. Once you get onto it, it is alot of fun to see just how far you can let it go to the right and still be able to use this move to get back on the wave.
Hope this helps. Terry
Hope this helps. Terry
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yarnellboat
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I love the fact the advice has included all three obvious things that you mentioned: the draw, the cross draw and the boat tilt! 
In my bigger boat (Outrage), I have not had much success on waves with the cross draw, but with a smaller boat and harder chines, go for it.
I think the draw advice on the sweet spot was really good, and I'd add to be patient and let it set, don't quit on it too early.
Speaking of early, the other options is of course trying to manage your angles at a finer level - anticipate things a little earlier, get your boat tilted, your weight back and your draw in as soon as you can, before it's too much to overcome.
Of course the best advice was the clinic... Paul, Andrew, anybody?... when are you coming back to Vancouver to do some clinics?! We've got lots of class II-III river runners out here who would love to work on surfing, spinning, rolling, creeking, etc., but can't fly to MKC.
PY.
In my bigger boat (Outrage), I have not had much success on waves with the cross draw, but with a smaller boat and harder chines, go for it.
I think the draw advice on the sweet spot was really good, and I'd add to be patient and let it set, don't quit on it too early.
Speaking of early, the other options is of course trying to manage your angles at a finer level - anticipate things a little earlier, get your boat tilted, your weight back and your draw in as soon as you can, before it's too much to overcome.
Of course the best advice was the clinic... Paul, Andrew, anybody?... when are you coming back to Vancouver to do some clinics?! We've got lots of class II-III river runners out here who would love to work on surfing, spinning, rolling, creeking, etc., but can't fly to MKC.
PY.
Last edited by yarnellboat on Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
When did you learn how to surf?
I love it: “I've never taken any canoeing courses so I don't know if this is an approved technique” from a guy who styles his way down Class 5 rivers in an OC.
Jim- you are a hoot!
Jim- you are a hoot!
Jim
A couple other thoughts
I feel like some key pointers would have been really helpful to me when I was struggling with my stern draw. In fact I still struggle with the draw and aside from the forward stroke it's the one stroke I'll be working on forever. So IMHO here are a couple of resources that have worked for me.
Kent Fords Drill time 2 : helped with wagging the tail, torso rotation, and blade angle. It's so easy to let the shaft hand get way to far back and you end up hanging on it. Instead lock your arms and rotate that torso. Also try the hold the painter trick mentioned in my last post.
Paul Masons path of the paddle whitewater book. Explains the whole deal especially boat angle as other posters have mentioned.
Bob Foote: Not quite sure why some people bash bob he's done so much for our sport and there are certainly some things to be gleaned from bob and he's a heck of a boater.
http://www.bobfoote.com/bob/tips/thesterndraw.htm
http://www.bobfoote.com/bob/tips/frontsurfingp3.htm
Kent Fords Drill time 2 : helped with wagging the tail, torso rotation, and blade angle. It's so easy to let the shaft hand get way to far back and you end up hanging on it. Instead lock your arms and rotate that torso. Also try the hold the painter trick mentioned in my last post.
Paul Masons path of the paddle whitewater book. Explains the whole deal especially boat angle as other posters have mentioned.
Bob Foote: Not quite sure why some people bash bob he's done so much for our sport and there are certainly some things to be gleaned from bob and he's a heck of a boater.
http://www.bobfoote.com/bob/tips/thesterndraw.htm
http://www.bobfoote.com/bob/tips/frontsurfingp3.htm
Extend your upper hand way over the gunwale. Rotate your torso and actually LOOK at your paddle blade, this ensures torso rotation. I can not stress how important it is to place your uper hand out over the water.
Next time you are in your boat, hold your upper hand inboard, notice the angle on the blade, then extend it outboard, note angle on the blade, now if you rotate your torso, with your hand way outboard, notice the angle. It should look like an "inverse" stern pry. This will work for you. Also, to enhance your draw, rotate the shaft/blade towards your body, i.e point your upper thumb slighly towards yourself, to grab a little more current. Keep the blade behind you too.
If you do all this and heel your boat downstream she should come around. The Draw is a weak stroke and needs to be executed perfectly to be most effective.
I would stay away from cross bow draws unless you are in a sticky hole, this creates drag that will take you off your wave. We dont want to PULL the boat upstream, rather DRAW the stern downstream.
Hope this confusion helps
Next time you are in your boat, hold your upper hand inboard, notice the angle on the blade, then extend it outboard, note angle on the blade, now if you rotate your torso, with your hand way outboard, notice the angle. It should look like an "inverse" stern pry. This will work for you. Also, to enhance your draw, rotate the shaft/blade towards your body, i.e point your upper thumb slighly towards yourself, to grab a little more current. Keep the blade behind you too.
If you do all this and heel your boat downstream she should come around. The Draw is a weak stroke and needs to be executed perfectly to be most effective.
I would stay away from cross bow draws unless you are in a sticky hole, this creates drag that will take you off your wave. We dont want to PULL the boat upstream, rather DRAW the stern downstream.
Hope this confusion helps
"Don't Panic"
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last thing as tiggy mentioned
look at the stroke is a great pointer and shown here, sorry I'm a visual learner, here is a great picture:
http://www.bobfoote.com/bob/tips/linkage.htm
http://www.bobfoote.com/bob/tips/linkage.htm
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ohioboater
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knees
I haven't figured out what exactly I did, muscle wise, but I used to have a weak stern draw for surfing. It felt like it was going to pull my arms right off my body - lots of 'effort' but little effect. Then one day, I somehow focused on twisting from my knees instead of pulling with my arms. All of a sudden, I was able to wag the boat back and forth very powerfully while front surfing. Pretty cool. I had thought all along that I was rotating my torso (was even looking at the blade), but until I actually concentrated on making my knees/lower body twist through the boat, all I was doing was hanging from my arms.