WANTED:beginner OC1-Rival, Ovation, Outrage or maybe Phantom

mcoombs · Post by **mcoombs** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:46 am

Hi, I'm 6'/150 lbs & looking for a solo canoe for river running & some surfing-maybe a Dagger Rival or Ovation, or Mad River Outrage. I would be interested in anything similar and might also consider a more forgiving higher performance boat (eg, Dagger Phantom). I am located in Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada and willing to drive a few hrs into BC or Montana to get boat.

Thanks

awelch · Post by **awelch** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:54 pm

I doubt this will helpyou in Canada; but I just saw a used MR Outrage in South Carolina that the guy might ship if you contact him. The boat was on Boatertalk.com in the gearswap section.

Post by **sbroam** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:18 pm

Here's a link :

http://boatertalk.com/gear-detail.php?gid=33305

I'm in Columbia but I don't know the boat - I could check it out. I don't have any plans for traveling, but might be able to help set something up.

the great gonzo · Post by **the great gonzo** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:12 pm

Hey Scott,

Are you coming to the Armada? A friend of mine here in Ontario is looking for something like an Outrage as well, and this might be an interesting boat for her to get, if it could make it's way to the Armada where I could pick it up.

cheers!

martin a.k.a. the great gonzo!

Post by **sbroam** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:51 pm

No... Can't make the Armada this year...

mcoombs · Post by **mcoombs** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:31 am

Thanks for the replies, so far I have found two boats locally: a Pyranha Prelude for $1200 and an Esquif Detonator for $1000. The Prelude is in very good condition and hasn't been used much, but the Detonator is well used and showing some wear on the chines. Can any tell me if these prices seem reasonable or too high for used boats? I am also thinking the Prelude may be too advanced for me to start out with. Any opinions? Thanks!

ohioboater · Post by **ohioboater** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:43 pm

Not sure where you're from, but even in Canadian dollars, that's a lot of money for a beat up boat. If there's serious wear on the chines (IE colored plastic showing through the vinyl), I'm not sure I'd buy the boat at all. But that's just me.

Fairly often I'll run across a nitro or detonator on other sites in nearly new condition for usually around $800.

edit - Just saw in the other thread you are in western Canada. Not sure what the availability of open boats up there is - I guess if they're hard to come by, that might explain the higher prices.

the great gonzo · Post by **the great gonzo** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:20 pm

Do you have previous experience in solo boats? If you do, and are willing to go through some learning curve, then the Prelude may still be something to consider for you, particularly since at 150 lbs you will be well within the weight range for that boat.
I paddle one and am slightly taller and a bit heavier than you (~6'2" and 190-195 lbs) and I do just fine in it, in fact I have not yet paddled another solo open boat I would trade it for.
But Preludes seem to be, mainly due to the limited primary stability, a love it or hate it kind of boat, and I definitely suggest that you try it out befor buying.
The price is, as far as I am concerned o.k., particularly since it's almost new and since open boats are rather rare in Western Canada. As it is made of Polyethylene it will also last you a long time even when you use it hard, I have had mine for almost 4 years now, abused it on shallow and rocky creeks and it's still going strong, has still at least as many years left.
Any royalex boat would have been long gone under the same circumstances.

martin a.k.a. the great gonzo!

msims · Post by **msims** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:53 pm

If you could get the Detonator for 800 buck that'd prolly be ok. I sold my Nitro for 800 CAD about a year ago, it was pretty beat up. But it did have brand new outfitting.

Wear on the chines is normal. If you check it out make sure that there are no soft spots on the chines... you shouldnt be able to push the chines in with your finger.

It's ugly but you can get ABS/acetone and repair the chines so they're like new (err.. well... structurally anyway)

If you're a beginner, my recommendation is (between the two) the detonator. Certainly doesnt have the performance of a prelude but it's still not a bad boat. Esp for your weight it will handle pretty good. I started by getting an advanced boat that I couldnt stay upright in and it kind of turned me off paddling for the season, until I traded it for a Nitro (same hull design as detonator, but bigger)

I think a rival/outrage might be too big for you. You'll enjoy getting through rapids at first, but you won't have to work for it, and pretty soon you will be bored with it.

mcoombs · Post by **mcoombs** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:47 am

Thanks again for the replies, everyone

Today I had someone offer me a Nitro and a MR Rampage. I think the Rampage will be way too big for me, but I'm considering the Nitro. I tried out the Detonator just quickly today on the Oldman River here in Lethbridge (a bit of current, but no rapids). It seemed very responsive, but slow. This might mean ferries in really pushy current would be difficult, I guess. Does anyone know if the Nitro might be a little faster? Anyone want to weigh in on the pros and cons of the Nitro vs. Detonator?

Another question is that the saddle seemed way too low and it was uncomfortable to sit in while trying to keep the balls of my feet on the foot pegs. I tried moving the foot pegs back further, but then my thighs weren't tight up on the straps. Would raising the saddle be the best thing to do here?

Thanks!

John Coraor · Post by **John Coraor** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:14 pm

Saddle height is generally a compromise between what is comfortable on your knees and one that provides good stability when paddling. The higher it is the greater the comfort, but at risk of decreasing stability. Only you can determine whether a higher seat would work for you. However, it's easy to test out. Just use a piece of minicell to temporarily raise the saddle the desired amount and try it out. Weight alone may be sufficient to keep the height adjusting element in place, or you can duct tape it to keep it in place (particularly in case you flip). If you still feel reasonably stable, then just make the change permanent with some contact cement.

P.S. These instructions are for a minicell saddle; if you've got a plastic saddle it will work as a temporary test, but might not be the best method for a permanent fix.

John

milkman · Post by **milkman** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:57 pm

Both the Nitro and Detonator are slow boats. Considering your size and weight, the Nitro would even be worse for you--you'd have more boat to try to accelerate.

If you can find a Phantom, that would be an excellent boat for you. The new Esquif Paradigm would be a good choice as well.

C-Forum

WANTED:beginner OC1-Rival, Ovation, Outrage or maybe Phantom

WANTED:beginner OC1-Rival, Ovation, Outrage or maybe Phantom

Outrage

I've found two boats so far

ouch!

Two more boats to add to the mix