Tub of Fun prototype OC1
Moderators: kenneth, sbroam, TheKrikkitWars, Mike W., Sir Adam, KNeal, PAC, adamin
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RodeoClown
- BlackFly Canoes
- Posts: 631
- Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:54 pm
- Location: New Hampton, NH
- Contact:
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Craig Smerda
- L'Edge Designer
- Posts: 2815
- Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2002 3:59 am
- Location: WaUSAu Wisconsin USA North America Earth, etc.
Nope... not this year, my daughter was born the week of team trials and I'm taking a short haitus and doing a few other projects right now. Jeremy and Dooley Tombras will be repesenting the United Nations...msims wrote:Jeremy, Craig are you both going to the worlds? I'm hoping to be there Saturday for viewing- will have my wife with me so I likely a) won't stay long, or b) will paddle, but would love to see the competition. Mike.
er um... I mean United States this year. Wish I was there... and yes... that is a big friggin' wave. 
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Sir Adam
- CBoats.net Staff
- Posts: 4136
- Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2002 12:00 am
- Location: Adirondacks, NY State, USA
- Contact:
Recommendation...
There's been a lot of tenseness on the board lately.
The water is up.
Go paddle.
Have fun.
Come back here more relaxed.
Please.
(and no, I am not singleling any one party out here...this goes for other threads of late as well. This one is just the most "tense".)
The water is up.
Go paddle.
Have fun.
Come back here more relaxed.
Please.
(and no, I am not singleling any one party out here...this goes for other threads of late as well. This one is just the most "tense".)
Keep the C!
Adam
Adam
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squeakyknee
- CBoats Addict
- Posts: 451
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:59 am
- Location: RVA
- Contact:
one final thought....
I think this also needs stated......
Best of luck in the worlds folks - to everyone who made the teams - here's to all the hard work!!!
Please provide updates and sik video when possible!
Paul C.
Best of luck in the worlds folks - to everyone who made the teams - here's to all the hard work!!!
Please provide updates and sik video when possible!
Paul C.
Paul C.
Cboats Moderator
Official TOG Member (Team Old Guy)!
Cboats Moderator
Official TOG Member (Team Old Guy)!
You know, I relly didn't consider some of the newer partially decked boats to be canoes per say, such as the Spanish Fly, ect.
But then the comment about kayak evolution caught my attention. I guess it is only fair that canoes follow an evolution too. I just always felt that they were different. Now I have to rethink my position.
I am certainly not a traditionalist...I have a bilge pump, and my oc-1 isn't birch bark. But for some reason I have an aversion to these types of canoes. Maybe it is just that If I want a deck I just go to my kayak.
I do think however that we need all of the new canoe designs we can get. Really I like them all. hades, I just like to boat period.
But then the comment about kayak evolution caught my attention. I guess it is only fair that canoes follow an evolution too. I just always felt that they were different. Now I have to rethink my position.
I am certainly not a traditionalist...I have a bilge pump, and my oc-1 isn't birch bark. But for some reason I have an aversion to these types of canoes. Maybe it is just that If I want a deck I just go to my kayak.
I do think however that we need all of the new canoe designs we can get. Really I like them all. hades, I just like to boat period.
what's wrong with a little discussion amongst like mined folks... good to see the level of comments (caliber of paddlers)... so many times it's sounds like one beginner, telling another beginner, something about another beginner that they happen to know
sounds good, now what can we do about the drought ????Sir Adam wrote:There's been a lot of tenseness on the board lately.
The water is up....
Go paddle....
Have fun....
Come back here more relaxed.
Please.
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NZMatt
- Supporting Paddler
- Posts: 419
- Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2003 8:55 pm
- Location: Konolfingen, Switzerland
OC1 vs C1
Very interesting thoughts here.
I paddle C1 and OC1 (even C1 squirt - I got my first controlled boat fully-submerged (rib deep) 360+ degree rotation last week!!). I have different boats for different things and enjoy them all.
I needed a new creeker recently - and I was really interested in the Taureau - I've never had a "decked" OC1 before (my other boat is a Zoom). I admit to preferring the mroe traditional style canoe for most of the paddling (river running) I do. For playboating I'm normally in a C1, because it's what I've got. For the creeker, though, it was a hard call. The creeks here are steep, fast and continuous, the eddies small. One reason to want a creeker is that I simply can't paddle the Zoom down many of these creeks yet and I wanted a boat for first runs of an unknown creek before taking the Zoom. Before I got the creeker my only option was an early Wheelboy without grabhandles (which caused me a certain amount of stress).
I ended up buying a kayak and converting it - not because I didn't want the Taureau, but because I decided that for pushing the envelope, a C1 might be safer (OK and easier - I'll admit it), and to buy a Taureau would cost 3+ times the price of the nearly new kayak (they're twice the price here as in the US).
I agree with RodeoClowns definition. Whatever you paddle, if you kneel and use the single blade, it's most likely a canoe of some type. If it barks and wags it's tail, it's probably a dog - but that's doesn't mean it has to be Bernese Mountain Dog, Labrador, Retriever, Husky or Cocker Spaniel.
I saw 2 other C-boaters on the river yesterday. It was a good day!
Cheers,
Matt
I paddle C1 and OC1 (even C1 squirt - I got my first controlled boat fully-submerged (rib deep) 360+ degree rotation last week!!). I have different boats for different things and enjoy them all.
I needed a new creeker recently - and I was really interested in the Taureau - I've never had a "decked" OC1 before (my other boat is a Zoom). I admit to preferring the mroe traditional style canoe for most of the paddling (river running) I do. For playboating I'm normally in a C1, because it's what I've got. For the creeker, though, it was a hard call. The creeks here are steep, fast and continuous, the eddies small. One reason to want a creeker is that I simply can't paddle the Zoom down many of these creeks yet and I wanted a boat for first runs of an unknown creek before taking the Zoom. Before I got the creeker my only option was an early Wheelboy without grabhandles (which caused me a certain amount of stress).
I ended up buying a kayak and converting it - not because I didn't want the Taureau, but because I decided that for pushing the envelope, a C1 might be safer (OK and easier - I'll admit it), and to buy a Taureau would cost 3+ times the price of the nearly new kayak (they're twice the price here as in the US).
I agree with RodeoClowns definition. Whatever you paddle, if you kneel and use the single blade, it's most likely a canoe of some type. If it barks and wags it's tail, it's probably a dog - but that's doesn't mean it has to be Bernese Mountain Dog, Labrador, Retriever, Husky or Cocker Spaniel.
I saw 2 other C-boaters on the river yesterday. It was a good day!
Cheers,
Matt
NZMatt
Hmmm....new country, new rivers...-
Still not enough c-boaters....
Hmmm....new country, new rivers...-
Still not enough c-boaters....
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Jamie@Openplayboater
- c
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:13 pm
- Location: UK
- Contact:
Hi
This has actually been a pretty interesting thread to read having been involved in the rules discussion out in Australia.
There may be people out there who are unhappy with the state of affairs regarding the definitions of what constitutes an open canoe for freestyle. There's also going to be a lot of people out there who are extremely happy with the rules and the scope for new designs that has come from them.
Granted, being part of the group of paddlers who decided on the rules was a great responsibility but to say that we were just a group of Brits, Germans Spanish and whatever isn't really fair. For starters, of the group of people present there were the four previous World Champions (Eli, Mark and Stephan) and people who have been involved in OC1 freestyle for over 10 years!! If anyone should have helped decide where OC1 freestyle was going it was this group of people. Every single one of them has a passion for OC1.
The biggest issue that was facing OC1 freestyle was the fact that the speed of development of the competition side of the sport had been very slow in comparison to the likes of the C1s and the kayakers. As a result, kayakers were beginning to call it a joke and there was more and more pressure mounting to try and get rid of OC1s from the competition as a whole. As a result, we had to adapt. By introducing a new set of rules, the door was opened to entice more and more people to develop ideas and designs.
This year has seen the first real change with regards boats used for competitions and people thinking of new and innovative designs. I for one will be interested to see how the worlds goes on a big wave. With some of the new designs I think it will be a very exciting Worlds to watch.
I know that the purists amongst us will never be happy with the way that the sport has gone but at the end of the day what would people like to see? OC1 in it's rightful place as part of the Worlds or not there at all?? Personally I think that the sport developing is a good thing but I am biased and have always been from a Freestyle background.
For the people that don't like the way that freestyle has gone, there are plenty of events out there that are right up your street. We can't please everyone but what we can do is try not to let OC1 dissapear completely and let those pesky kayakers take over.
Good luck to everyone who is out at the Worlds and hopefully I'll see some of you next time...
Jamie Burbeck
This has actually been a pretty interesting thread to read having been involved in the rules discussion out in Australia.
There may be people out there who are unhappy with the state of affairs regarding the definitions of what constitutes an open canoe for freestyle. There's also going to be a lot of people out there who are extremely happy with the rules and the scope for new designs that has come from them.
Granted, being part of the group of paddlers who decided on the rules was a great responsibility but to say that we were just a group of Brits, Germans Spanish and whatever isn't really fair. For starters, of the group of people present there were the four previous World Champions (Eli, Mark and Stephan) and people who have been involved in OC1 freestyle for over 10 years!! If anyone should have helped decide where OC1 freestyle was going it was this group of people. Every single one of them has a passion for OC1.
The biggest issue that was facing OC1 freestyle was the fact that the speed of development of the competition side of the sport had been very slow in comparison to the likes of the C1s and the kayakers. As a result, kayakers were beginning to call it a joke and there was more and more pressure mounting to try and get rid of OC1s from the competition as a whole. As a result, we had to adapt. By introducing a new set of rules, the door was opened to entice more and more people to develop ideas and designs.
This year has seen the first real change with regards boats used for competitions and people thinking of new and innovative designs. I for one will be interested to see how the worlds goes on a big wave. With some of the new designs I think it will be a very exciting Worlds to watch.
I know that the purists amongst us will never be happy with the way that the sport has gone but at the end of the day what would people like to see? OC1 in it's rightful place as part of the Worlds or not there at all?? Personally I think that the sport developing is a good thing but I am biased and have always been from a Freestyle background.
For the people that don't like the way that freestyle has gone, there are plenty of events out there that are right up your street. We can't please everyone but what we can do is try not to let OC1 dissapear completely and let those pesky kayakers take over.
Good luck to everyone who is out at the Worlds and hopefully I'll see some of you next time...
Jamie Burbeck
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the great gonzo
- Paddling Benefactor
- Posts: 1718
- Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2003 2:03 am
- Location: Montréal, Québec
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the great gonzo
- Paddling Benefactor
- Posts: 1718
- Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2003 2:03 am
- Location: Montréal, Québec
Are you kidding me?!? How could you dare call a buffalo hide covered boat a canoe?!? If it's not made of birch bark, it does not countmshelton wrote:So are you saying that my buffalo hide canoe ISN'T a real canoe!?!?!
!martin a.k.a. the great gonzo!
Everyone must believe in something. I believe I'll go canoeing - Henry David Thoreau
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Craig Smerda
- L'Edge Designer
- Posts: 2815
- Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2002 3:59 am
- Location: WaUSAu Wisconsin USA North America Earth, etc.
Well said Jamie... well said.Jamie@Openplayboater wrote:Hi
This has actually been a pretty interesting thread to read having been involved in the rules discussion out in Australia.
There may be people out there who are unhappy with the state of affairs regarding the definitions of what constitutes an open canoe for freestyle. There's also going to be a lot of people out there who are extremely happy with the rules and the scope for new designs that has come from them.
Granted, being part of the group of paddlers who decided on the rules was a great responsibility but to say that we were just a group of Brits, Germans Spanish and whatever isn't really fair. For starters, of the group of people present there were the four previous World Champions (Eli, Mark and Stephan) and people who have been involved in OC1 freestyle for over 10 years!! If anyone should have helped decide where OC1 freestyle was going it was this group of people. Every single one of them has a passion for OC1.
The biggest issue that was facing OC1 freestyle was the fact that the speed of development of the competition side of the sport had been very slow in comparison to the likes of the C1s and the kayakers. As a result, kayakers were beginning to call it a joke and there was more and more pressure mounting to try and get rid of OC1s from the competition as a whole. As a result, we had to adapt. By introducing a new set of rules, the door was opened to entice more and more people to develop ideas and designs.
This year has seen the first real change with regards boats used for competitions and people thinking of new and innovative designs. I for one will be interested to see how the worlds goes on a big wave. With some of the new designs I think it will be a very exciting Worlds to watch.
I know that the purists amongst us will never be happy with the way that the sport has gone but at the end of the day what would people like to see? OC1 in it's rightful place as part of the Worlds or not there at all?? Personally I think that the sport developing is a good thing but I am biased and have always been from a Freestyle background.
For the people that don't like the way that freestyle has gone, there are plenty of events out there that are right up your street. We can't please everyone but what we can do is try not to let OC1 dissapear completely and let those pesky kayakers take over.
Good luck to everyone who is out at the Worlds and hopefully I'll see some of you next time...
Jamie Burbeck
The meetings... (there was three of them) were very interesting to say the least. As a dynamic group we made a concerted effort to try to maintain the spirit of the "open" canoe by making certain that the boats maintained the feel of an open canoe and the most distinct part of the boat remained an open canoe which revolved mainly around the cockpit area ("Box"). There was good debates about issues like filled ends and/or solid bulkheads and how much open surface area should be required, also the best thing that I think we determined was that the boats should have a minimum amount of water they can hold... (frankly... if I wanted to I could foam out any of my boats to the point where the only thing that would be in the boat would be myself and maybe a cup or two of water...) and that was exactly what we decided against. An open canoe holding "x" gallons/litres of water reacts and performs much different than one that holds nearly nothing. The biggest area we left open to imagination and interpretation was the ends of the boat... and to some folks out there I guess if it doesn't have ends that are higher than the middle of the boat that immediately deems the boat as not being an open canoe... we see things differently. If we want to perform tricks other than a flat spin, an old school piroutte or an ender our boats HAVE to be different and nobody at this competition or any of the meetings debated that fact. In all I think everyone there represented themselves very well and the rides that took place during that particular competition were the highest for open canoes at any worlds... ever... and the crowd and fellow competitors loved it. I was proud to be a part of it.
Are you regretting not going this year yet Jamie?... I think I'm beginning to suddenly.