Burn Sizing

jnorto01 · Post by **jnorto01** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:57 pm

For you guys that have converted Pyranha Burns, what size should be right for someone around 165-170lbs. M or L. Thanks Jim

Larry Horne · Post by **Larry Horne** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:33 am

i have always liked the big float.
i'm 6', 175lbs. the large is great for me. not sure what the specs are, but i'd rather be at the bottom of the weight limit than the top.
imho, if you plan on doing any overnighters, get a big one for sure. otherwise you could probably go either way, but i think the big one will be more forgiving.

i think bernie did a medium? i bet if you did a search you would find his post..

jnorto01 · Post by **jnorto01** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:08 pm

Thanks for the input Larry. Unfortunately someone was faster that me and beat me to the boat I was gonna buy. I'll just have to keep my eyes open . Jim

Bernie · Post by **Bernie** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:41 pm

I have paddled the medium and the large Burn. I like the large for bigger water in creeks and rivers but prefer the medium for low volume runs. I am 5'11" @ 170#.
If you are in W. Va. you can demo my L Burn. I sold the M Burn because I use the M-3 233 for low volume paddling.
I will have a M Ammo tricked out next week!

Larry Horne · Post by **Larry Horne** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:47 am

i am going to want to hear about the ammo, bernie, don't hold back.

fez · Post by **fez** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:33 am

how do you like your Ammo ?
Have you got pictures comparing it to the Burn ?

Cheers Frank

Larry Horne · Post by **Larry Horne** » Tue May 01, 2007 2:22 am

just saw an ammo in person this weekend... i will be suprised if it works good as a c1.

mshelton · Post by **mshelton** » Tue May 01, 2007 12:29 pm

Elaborate please.

Larry Horne · Post by **Larry Horne** » Wed May 02, 2007 1:35 am

it just looked to me like a FAT playboat. too short for me i think.
i'm not sure what it's purpose is. maybe it's for those playboaters who can't handle (or don't like) a big (creek) boat? or for those real tight creeks?

fez · Post by **fez** » Fri May 04, 2007 7:08 am

looking on the hull I thought the Ammo M could be a nice riverrunner/semi-creeker for the small and light C-paddler (like me...).
It has rails to have fun, but not to aggressive rails to be scared, it has a planing hull that could give primary stability, the flattish seems to be long. The volume seems to be "in the middle".

Here is a test (kajak):
http://www.rivergypsies.com/ammo.html

[img]http://www.rivergypsies.com/ammo/recoil_ammo_hull.jpg[/img]

Cheers Frank

bearboater · Post by **bearboater** » Fri May 04, 2007 7:11 am

makes me think of a rounded off scud.
or in other words a potato.
Skaal
-Isaac

the great gonzo · Post by **the great gonzo** » Fri May 04, 2007 12:45 pm

fez wrote:looking on the hull I thought the Ammo M could be a nice riverrunner/semi-creeker for the small and light C-paddler (like me...).
It has rails to have fun, but not to aggressive rails to be scared, it has a planing hull that could give primary stability, the flattish seems to be long. The volume seems to be "in the middle".

Here is a test (kajak):
http://www.rivergypsies.com/ammo.html

[img]http://www.rivergypsies.com/ammo/recoil_ammo_hull.jpg[/img]

Cheers Frank

As far as I know Andria, who wrote the test report for the Ammo, is a Team Pyranha paddler, so there is some bias in that review.

I have not paddles the Ammo, nor the Scud, which is similar, but a friend of mine used to have a Massive Mojo, which followed a similar design idea.
I was less than impressed. Instead of, as advertised, ending up with a Jack of all trades kinda boat, you end up with a Jack of none kinda boat. Way too much volume to be really playful, not eenough length to hold a line, slow.
While I think short boats like this work for some people as kayaks in a creeking environment, I think their inherent handling characteristics (slow, extremely maneuveable, not very good at holding a line) work against them as a C1, where I found that, due to the inherent differences beween C1 and kajak paddling (slower acceleration, harder to go straight/hold a line, easier to turn due to better reach and ability to torque your boat around) it seems to accentuate those problems. Personally, I tend to opt towards slightly longer and sater boats that hold a line nicely for riverrunning and creeking.

just my 2 cents

martin a.k.a. the great gonzo!

fez · Post by **fez** » Fri May 04, 2007 12:52 pm

Thanks! Sounds reasonable.

Cheers Frank

RodeoClown · Post by **RodeoClown** » Fri May 04, 2007 1:27 pm

Bernie, I'd be really interested to hear how the Ammo paddles as a C-1. I've spent a bunch of time in the small one as a kayak and I think it would be a blast...

There seem to be a lot of people asking "what's it for?" The best answer I can give is that it's what you want it to be for. All of the speculation here (riverrunner/semi-creeker, a FAT playboat, for those playboaters who can't handle (or don't like) a big (creek) boat, for those real tight creeks...) you get the idea.

I'd say that comparing it to a Mojo, or even a Scud really isn't fair- this is a different beast- but then again I'm biased... It really is a Jack of all trades boat. Obliviously it doesn't creek as well as a Burn, or play as well as the 4-twenty, but it does both "pretty well." Keep in mind that the small ammo specs at a similar volume to the M/L 4-twenty (I used to have both sizes of the 4-Twenty, but have replaced the large one wit the Ammo when I want to launch big loops...) It'll loop, cartwheel, spin, blunt- I can eddyline cartwheel it and stern squirt it on a good eddyline. If you're used to paddling a XXX for play, you probably won't like it, but if you're used to paddling a modern "spud" playboat, you can make it work.

If you're looking for a full-on creeker, that Ammo isn't it. The same goes if you're the type of person who just wants to "cruise" the river and carry speed. If you're used to paddling short boats and looking for something for those Class IV runs where there's a little bit of play (think big sandy, upper yough, etc) and want a fun ride, I bet the Ammo would be fun as a C-1 as well.

Jeremy
Team Pyranha

Bernie · Post by **Bernie** » Tue May 08, 2007 2:25 am

I have only paddled the Ammo twice, on the Upper Yough and the Cheat Canyon. My intentions for this boat is to paddle class 4 or easier rivers and creeks with a playful hull and water shedding deck.

When I started to trick out the Ammo I had serious doubts about it being a good c-1. My concerns were how trippy the chines would be and the initial stability. Before I put it on the water I softened the hard inside chine just enough to take the hard edge off because this seemed to work well on the M Burn.

On the Upper Yough at 2' it was a really fun and forgiving boat to paddle. It would always stay on the surface, change direction with one stroke, and boof without effort. The chines were never an issue and the stability as good as the Burn. On the Cheat it was fun to play but it did sideslip a little on the bigger lateral waves.

What I liked most about this boat is that the chine stops approximately 2' from the stern and you don't have to worry about getting tripped on the stern, the boat is short ( 7'2") and light( 36.7 #)and easy to control and carry, the most playful hull with a water shedding deck, and stays on the surface.

What I dislike will have to wait. I will have to paddle it more.

I plan on keeping this boat for a long time so it will be available to demo.

Boat - M Ammo
Paddler - 5'11", 170#

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Burn Sizing

Burn Sizing

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