gooey vinyl - aagh!

ohioboater · Post by **ohioboater** » Sun May 13, 2007 9:24 pm

As I got to work on outfitting the used Dimension I bought recently, I discovered that the previous owner installed a bunch of D-rings improperly. They pulled up with almost no effort and left behind a nasty, sticky, intractable mess. Not only is it a pain, but the glue appears to have degraded the vinyl - it's soft and sticky everywhere the glue was and also delaminating from the ABS in few smaller patches (again where the glue was, just not the entire cicrle).

Please tell me there's a way to fix this! I'm nervous about applying a new d-ring over the damaged spot, in case the degeneration will continue underneath the new patch. But I need to put something there - that's where the thigh straps need to attach unless I move the saddle.

The old d-rings have been off for a couple of weeks, but I just now got around to prepping the surface for new ones. In that time, the glue and vinyl have not changed consistenty - IE, it doesn't appear to be drying or solidifying on its own.

Mike W. · Post by **Mike W.** » Mon May 14, 2007 2:46 am

I wonder if adding a big patch of vinyl over the area would help. Next week they're replacing the vinyl liner in my pool

If anyone wants to try this, let me know & I'll cut a section off before they toss the old liner. You may want to try this on a junk boat before trying it on a good one

Wendy · Post by **Wendy** » Mon May 14, 2007 3:22 am

I have one in 2 boats. You won't need the D-rings. We used two sided tape on the bottom and thwarts to secure the saddle. In the saddle you place a small piece of treated lumbar to secure a screw from the thawrt into the saddle. This is stable, can move to your next boat, and no D-ring needed.

msims · Post by **msims** » Mon May 14, 2007 4:21 pm

Warning: I found the esquif saddle uncomfortable (er.. too small) for me... a few other smaller paddlers that day didnt like it either. If you do go w/ a saddle, be careful with that purchase...

Mike.

ohioboater · Post by **ohioboater** » Mon May 14, 2007 5:50 pm

I like the concept of bulkhead outfitting, but this is a boat that will see many different sizes of users. Also, I don't want to invest a ton of money into it right away. Both of those factors push me toward straps...

Eric Nyre · Post by **Eric Nyre** » Mon May 14, 2007 7:39 pm

Some things I'd try:

First - take a hair dryer to the area and see if you can bake it. Toluene is nasty stuff and probably did plenty of damage, but it's worth a shot

Second - assuming the hair dryer didn't do squat, I'd lightly dampen a paper towel with Acetone and very lightly wipe the area. It will dissolve the vinyl, so be light. If the vinyl peels right off, no worries, go to step 3

Third - Remove the vinyl from the area, and assuming the ABS is still ok, bond new patches in with Plexus MA 300. It will stick to the ABS, and unless the ABS itself delaminates, the patch will stay in.

Wendy · Post by **Wendy** » Mon May 14, 2007 8:42 pm

comment on the bulkhead. I am overwieght and with a knife, dragonskin, sandpaper it isn't too small its just right. They can even put longer Yakima extensiosn for the foot braces.
Good luck!

ohioboater · Post by **ohioboater** » Tue May 15, 2007 12:35 pm

Eric Nyre wrote:Some things I'd try:

Third - Remove the vinyl from the area, and assuming the ABS is still ok, bond new patches in with Plexus MA 300. It will stick to the ABS, and unless the ABS itself delaminates, the patch will stay in.

If it gets to this point, does the Plexus stuff adhere to standard vinyl D-ring patches? Or do I need to buy something different?

Eric Nyre · Post by **Eric Nyre** » Tue May 15, 2007 2:04 pm

I don't see a problem with the Plexus bonding to Vinyl. You'll want to wipe the vinyl with Acetone to de-oil it, but that should be the only step required. That said I haven't tried it on vinyl, but with everything else I've used it with, I think it will work. Worst case you can just bond the metal D-ring directly to the ABS with it, but the vinyl patch gives more flexibility (the metal would be very rigid).

This is nasty stuff, use gloves and a respirator. You don't want it sticking to you.

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/us ... o?pid=4881 Is one source

The technical sheet can be found at http://www.plexusasia.com/TDS/MA300%20TDS.pdf

philcanoe · Post by **philcanoe** » Tue May 15, 2007 11:58 pm

ohioboater wrote:... left behind a nasty, sticky, intractable mess. .. the glue appears to have degraded the vinyl - it's soft and sticky everywhere the glue was and also delaminating from the ABS in few smaller patches (again where the glue was, just not the entire cicrle).

ohioboater wrote:Please tell me there's a way to fix this! I'm nervous about applying a new d-ring over the damaged spot, in case the degeneration will continue underneath the new patch.

ohioboater wrote:The old d-rings have been off for a couple of weeks...in that time, the glue and vinyl have not changed consistenty - IE, it doesn't appear to be drying or solidifying on its own.

I fail to see how Plexus will solve the problem and acetone may just exacerbate a bad situation.

There will still be the initial problem if the vinyl is truly delaminated. If you merely bond to the top layer of vinyl, it may cause a bigger problem. And if it's soften'd ABS, you then risk encapsulating the problem. It may never harden and ruin a larger area.

The first thing I would try is really low level heat, nice and slow. And maybe try removing old uncured solvent with Denatured Alcohol and a little elbow grease.

Is there any noticeable change since the last/first post?

sdbrassfield · Post by **sdbrassfield** » Wed May 16, 2007 3:24 am

Remove the old adhesive goo with a weak adhesive remover such as goof-off/oops and see if the area hardens up over a few days. If it does not you will be removing the vinyl layer and making a vinyl patch if the ABS layer has not softened up too much.

If the ABS is gooey then I would see if it will harden up over time then just vinyl patch if it hardens or you may have to go deeper with a glass patch if it does not.

Unfortunately, it sounds like it has affected the ABS if it has delaminated and you have "gooey".

Eric Nyre · Post by **Eric Nyre** » Wed May 16, 2007 3:56 pm

philcanoe wrote:I fail to see how Plexus will solve the problem and acetone may just exacerbate a bad situation.

There will still be the initial problem if the vinyl is truly delaminated. If you merely bond to the top layer of vinyl, it may cause a bigger problem. And if it's soften'd ABS, you then risk encapsulating the problem. It may never harden and ruin a larger area.

Plexus comes in if the outer layer of vinyl is removed, and the ABS is still good. My only reference to Plexus and vinyl is in reference to the vinyl D-ring, not anything inside the hull. It will bond a vinyl D-ring to solid ABS, if the only problem is a gooey outer layer.

If the ABS is soft, then that's a bigger problem but the outer layer of vinyl would still have to go.

ohioboater · Post by **ohioboater** » Wed May 16, 2007 9:31 pm

I'll try the gentle heat approach and see if that solidifies things. I don't really expect it to, though. I'm guessing I'll have to scrape the vinyl off and either epoxy onto good ABS or patch bad ABS. It'll be a couple days, though - I got hit with a stomach flu last night and don't have the strength to screw with the boat right now.

C-Forum

gooey vinyl - aagh!

gooey vinyl - aagh!

You could get a bulkhead saddle from Esquif

bulkheads

I agree go with straps if lots of folks to paddle but

MA 300 and d-ring patches

Re: gooey vinyl - aagh!

Re: gooey vinyl - aagh!

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