"Big" Boat Question

[pdown2]

So I got to ask some opinions now. What is a good all purpose whitewater boat that has good speed and crisp handling. I've thought about a Mohawk Shaman or an Esquif Spark, but then I always return to getting Mohawk Viper 11...yeah, this boat is not fast I know. I have my little plastic creekin' beater, a Quake, but I really want something with a little more speed and something that can handle bigger water while staying a little drier.

[Bruce Farrenkopf]

Would you consider a closed boat?
SYOTR,
Bruce

[Jim]

Good speed? Crisp handling?

The Spark will fill that bill!

I have had one for a year and a half and love it. It is now my primary boat for paddling and the others are getting lonely.

[Nessmuk]

MR Outrage. Fast, nimble, and dry. Nice "big water" boat.

[yarnellboat]

I agree that it sounds you're looking for a Spark.

On the other hand, if you're drawn to the Viper 11, but want it to carry more speed, try a Viper 12.

PY.

[pdown2]

Bruce - Not a fan of closed boats after receiving a beat down in a CFS. I keep swearing that I'll give them another shot but once bitten...

Nessmuk - Ah the MR Outrage, thats an oldie but a goody. Great boats but looking for something a little faster. I guess I should give it another look though, people that have them absolutely love them.

**all you Outrage guys don't kill me for the slow statement, my Quake is the slowest thing I've ever paddled....but thats the best creeker you can buy.....well could buy**

yarnellboat - Ok the Viper 12, I've heard a lot of people bash on those. Everyone I've spoken with about a 12 has said don't bother. Have you paddled one? Has anyone paddled a Viper 12 that can give statement on it?

Jim - would you say that the Spark has good acceleration and glide, I'm looking for something that provides good attainment and quick lateral moves and can still release to cut loose on a wave.

To all, thanks for the input. The process of finding a new boat is a long one. I'm trying to figure out what to pick up before the water gets good again. Looks like I'll be giving the Spark a paddle and Viper 12 as well as revisiting an Outrage.

[sbroam]

I paddled a Viper 12 for 4-5 years heavily and loved it. I started paddling C-1 and kept it around, continuing to paddle it til I had worn the hull paper thin. I recently got a Zephyr, and while not everyone agrees, I think they are similar - giving the "edge" on speed to the Viper.

[pblanc]

It has been quite a few years now, but I owned a Viper 12 and loved it. I wouldn't call it fast, but it was quick to accelerate and seemed to have better glide than the Viper 11. I briefly paddled a Spark recently and it reminded me of the Viper somewhat. The Viper is distinctly edgier, though, and has a symmetrical hull. I have paddled a Shaman some as well and it is very fast.

[Walsh]

I got to paddle a Spark for a few minutes two weekends ago, and the thing is a friggin' hot rod. There is no comparison to a Shaman or any of the other old royalex models in terms of accelleration, probably because of the weight. (Is ~35lbs right?) The thing is a joy to portage, fast, and turns like a decked boat. The one I paddled had been used for more than a full season of scrapey Class II and III, and seemed to be holding up, though the construction is certainly light.

If I were in the market for a boat, the Spark well might be it.

[cbcboat]

Well the Spark is for the most part a 'slalom' boat,-- Speed & attainment ability are definetley strong points. Loose on a wave not as good as others-- Ocoee-- harder edges flatter bottom. If you think the Outrage is slow the Spark is probably the only option unless going really long, 12', 13'+. Have you considered a composite boat--Millbrook makes some pretty sweet boats, they are available in different layups, so you could get one built up pretty beefy. My opinion.
Thanks
B[/quote]

[Jim]

You cannot get it all from one boat. The Spark can accelerate and attain really well. However, its length and its rocker limit these in comparison to some other boats. I find it to be VERY fast for a 11' 8" boat, but it is still an 11' 8" boat.

The trade-offs for me make the Spark my first choice (slalom speed, great responsiveness, etc.). You need to try one to make an informed decision.

Also, I agree with cbcboat- you will find some great options at Millbrook Boats (http://www.millbrookboats.com/).

[Oci-One Kanubi]

Faaassssssstttttttttttttttt! Maneuverable. Dry. So not a playboat. Outstanding river runner.

I just got a call from my local dealer: my 2nd Prodigy X has just arrived from Minnesota. I'll pick it up and finish outfitting it after Labor Day Weekend paddling. I've lost 35 pounds this year and hope to lose 15 more, but still, I was not willing to take the chance that the regular Prodigy, which I now "fit", would be as good as the "X" model. This thang SURE ain't broke, so I'm sure not gonna fix it!

[wjblatner]

Though not an expert, I'll put my vote in for the Spark. I've been paddling one for about 2 years now. Nice and light and it fits into eddies better than a "long boat" (though some consider it a long boat - maybe based more on the shape than actual length.) I love the acceleration and responsiveness and the easy carry from the car to the water.

Bill

[yarnellboat]

pdown2,

Actually, no, I don't think I've ever paddled a Viper 12 - just assuming that it would carry more speed than a Viper 11, and I haven't heard people bashing the 12.

But, it sounds like the Spark is the OC that's built for the speed you want. I have paddled a Viper11 and a Spark (each only a little), and there's no question that the handling and acceleration of the Spark feels way more inspiring for speed!

PY.

[c1swim]

My vote would be for the Viper 12; fast, dry, and surfs well, also carves a sharp line. I've never tried the spark.