Any comments on converting a Wave Sport Z to C1

eculp · Post by **eculp** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:42 pm

In a conversion with a friend who stopped by NOC this summer when in N.C. That they recommended a Wave Sport Z for conversion to C1 but said they were getting hard to find. I just happen to have a friend here who has one that is like new, so no shipping, no customs, etc. It would be convenient but I am wondering if anyone has any experience with them and are have recommendations. I am about 6"4 and weigh 210.

Since Dagger no longer makes their C-1 conversion kits, does anyone know of another company that makes something similar?

Thanks,

ed

c1swim · Post by **c1swim** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:14 pm

I am 6"1' & 175lbs. I built a Z as my playboat. I put a dagger
saddle in it. I don't have a lot of experience in this boat because
I converted it in Jan. and it's been raining here all year. So, I've been busy in other boats. I'm sure a Dagger insert could be found
on the boats for sale page. Just ask.

Ed Eout · Post by **Ed Eout** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:31 pm

I've been paddling one for 4 seasons in up to (easy side of) class 4. I'm 5'10", 175-180# (without gear!).
It's a short boat, especially for a single blade. Your can make up some speed on hairy ferrys by cranking it up on it's substantial edge, but it still has a 6.5' length at waterline. It's a wave surfing monster but the decks hold water unless you constantly carve to unload them. All in all I would say it's a pretty good river runner for most normal runs although it may be a bit slicey for 4+ water as a C1. It pretty forgiving once you come to trust the amazing amount of secondary stability. It may have too much volume to be a good play boat for you.

If you are any where near DC or paddle West Virginia you are welcome to try mine. PM me -

J Robins has a pretty cool outfitting setup, you can find him through this site - team ETC -.
Jim Norton also has photos of his super clean installation of my adaptation of the fence post outfitting system, both posted here somewhere. They may be able to post with more info.

I'm not a big fan of the Dagger system but that's just my opinion.

Post by **sbroam** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:38 pm

A Z should be good river runner / playboat. [I was shopping for one when I ended up with my UltraClean. I eventually replaced the Ultraclean with a Score, the slightly longer, pointier brother of the Z.] I had a chance to paddle a Z and liked it - it surfed well and I could flatwater cartwheel it with little effort (I'm 220#). Speed is entirely relative - this will be a lot faster than the current crop of spud boats, but slower than Christmas compared to a slalom boat. I say go for it - do "non-destructive" outfitting so you can turn it back to a K-1 if it doesn't work out.

billcanoes · Post by **billcanoes** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:24 pm

Bernie with Whitewater Warehouse in OH has a friend John who is designing conversion kits. The company is East Coast Canoes- I looked for them a little this morning but couldn't find the web page.

Maybe someone else here has contact info.

East Coast Canoes · Post by **East Coast Canoes** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:05 pm

Bill, thanks for the promo
everyone, with the the help from Bernie from the Whitewater Warehouse we have a complete C1 conversion availble.
the website isn't back up and running yet since i took ownership of East Coast Canoes.
if anyone is intrested for now, i can post or e-mail some pics.
it's a really good and easy kit with only a few adjustments..
also availble is outfitting and custom straps and accs.

Ed, send me a e-mail and i will send you some pics and info
also i will try to post some pics today.
let me know
john

East Coast Canoes · Post by **East Coast Canoes** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:42 pm

http://www.flickr.com/photos/12846655@N07/1477538595/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/12846655@N07/1477538605/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/12846655@N07/1477538625/

cheajack · Post by **cheajack** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:48 pm

I've had two Z-1's. They are great boats. Very stable. Medium fast for the length/volume. Great river runner. OK playboat as long as surfing and flat spins satisfies you. With the possible exception of an Overflow X, the Z is the best all around conversion I have paddled.

C-Dawg · Post by **C-Dawg** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:36 pm

Very stable boat on the Gauley and Upper yough, great surfs on the Ottawa. Per Bernie maybe 8 years ago I took a piece of Kevlar and epoxied it to the inside of the hull and then made a foam pedestal 6 1/2 inches high. Used Northwater wide double attachment velcro straps. They keep you tight if you need to roll but have released when I needed to swim, Big Nasty at 7 foot, I embarrassed myself as I was following 4 butt boaters and was not aggressively running a c-boater line. I store a cheap raft paddle with cut down shaft as a spare in the front end. I do miss the longer glass boats but do like the Z.

mshelton · Post by **mshelton** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:36 am

Dweasel has one, slightly modified....

billcanoes · Post by **billcanoes** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:25 am

Ed

are you still planning to use this boat for class III-IV runs - worse case scenario you'd have a fun playboat- I think given your location you should go for it

John,
it was awesome talking to you at Gauleyfest - I'm glad that we have boaters out there designing and making equipment for the canoe crowd.

http://playak.com/article.php?sid=105

taken from Playak
To start I removed the seat and foot pegs from the kayak version. I then plotted out the center of the boat which is between the bolts where the thigh straps attach at the cockpit rim. I used mini-cell foam to make the saddle which is 7" high with a 7' high back rest. More foam was used for the knee cups and ankle blocks. The original foam pillars were removed and an anchoring plastic dowel installed through them and re-installed. A piece of PVC rain downspout with a wooden insert (drilled out to reduce the weight) connects the forward and aft foam pillars through 1/4' plastic sheet plates. The saddle straddles the PVC pillar glue to it and the hull. When in the boat the center line of the boat passes through the middle of my upper body. I used a double equalizing thigh strap system which anchors via a bolt just outside the knee through the centre pillar D ring and to the original seat mounting bolts. Strap adjusting buckles are linked together with a cored passed through a plastic tube for easy quick wet exits. The boat it well trimed, stable and just a lot of fun to paddle. I chose the Z due to my physical size which is 6'2" 220lbs.

Info source

East Coast Canoes · Post by **East Coast Canoes** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:22 pm

Bill,
likewise, it was really good to talk to you about cboats.
did have a question or 2 for you though, maybe you could PM me sometime.
everyone,
the new website is almost up and running.
the complete C1 outfiittng kits are almost ready, waiting on the saddles to get in.
the C1 kits are availble in 2 versions, a play or creek setups,
with your choice of thigh straps or a lapbelt.
the kits are compatiable with most boats, using a seat rail, saddle,compression block,knee pad,thigh straps or lapbelt,knee block,and ankle blocks.
saddles are also availble for Jackson Kayaks using there stock rail.
if anyone is intrested in a Outfitting kit, let me know and i will send you more info.
also if anyone is in need of a boat being set up, also let me know and we could arrange pick up and it being outfitted and delevired.

coming soon is the new oc1 playboat, the N.F.B
thanks for checking everything out,
john

Here's some pics of a few c1 that have been outfitted with this system, sorry for the bad photos.
[img]http://photo.spi360.com/gallery2/d/3505 ... ge0001.JPG[/img] Jackson Superstar
[img]http://photo.spi360.com/gallery2/d/3502 ... ge0008.JPG[/img] Pyranha I3
[img]http://photo.spi360.com/gallery2/d/3498 ... ge0015.JPG[/img]Pyranha 420

eculp · Post by **eculp** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:20 am

Thanks to all for your replys. They are a great help for a person who lives somewhat isolated from new equipment. (Veracruz, Mexico) Especially if you are a c-1er. I'm embarrassed that I didn't reply before but somehow I guess I forgot to subscribe to the thread and got too tied up with work. Work is a lousy hobby

I'll be getting back to ya, shortly. Thanks again for all your recommendations.

eculp · Post by **eculp** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:42 am

c1swim wrote:I am 6"1' & 175lbs. I built a Z as my playboat. I put a dagger
saddle in it. I don't have a lot of experience in this boat because
I converted it in Jan. and it's been raining here all year. So, I've been busy in other boats. I'm sure a Dagger insert could be found
on the boats for sale page. Just ask.

I've been looking for atom outfitting but there aren't many atoms in Mexico and dagger has quit making their outfitting kit that was based on the atom, IIRC. I'll give the "boats for sale page" a shot. (I like that kit a lot.)

On a side note, I think you can stop "dancing for rain" because we have had more than our share in Veracruz this year, too. It'll be great in the "winter" (Veracruz winter

though) January and February should be great. The rain should make the Guadalupe a fun river.

One of the first outfitters on the Guadalupe actually got me started in a c1 back about 20 years ago because he had an old c1 shell and I didn't fit in a kayak so the rest is history. Cancer took him a couple of years ago but he is fondly remembered here and will be for many years to come. First as a selfless friend to all of us and second as the whitewater pioneer that really got Mexico started. Steve Abbott will always be with us.

eculp · Post by **eculp** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:55 am

Ed Eout wrote:I've been paddling one for 4 seasons in up to (easy side of) class 4. I'm 5'10", 175-180# (without gear!).
It's a short boat, especially for a single blade. Your can make up some speed on hairy ferrys by cranking it up on it's substantial edge, but it still has a 6.5' length at waterline. It's a wave surfing monster but the decks hold water unless you constantly carve to unload them. All in all I would say it's a pretty good river runner for most normal runs although it may be a bit slicey for 4+ water as a C1. It pretty forgiving once you come to trust the amazing amount of secondary stability. It may have too much volume to be a good play boat for you.

Gracias Tocayo, (used in Spanish when you have the same given name, Ed), as you noted, I am somewhat concerned about the length but as far as volume, I do have about 30 pounds more ballast

and 5 or 6 inches more height that should take care of the volume issue.

Ed Eout wrote:If you are any where near DC or paddle West Virginia you are welcome to try mine. PM me -

Thanks a lot, I appreciate the offer and would love to but I hope to have one built before I can get up that way.

Ed Eout wrote:J Robins has a pretty cool outfitting setup, you can find him through this site - team ETC -.
Jim Norton also has photos of his super clean installation of my adaptation of the fence post outfitting system, both posted here somewhere. They may be able to post with more info.

I'm not a big fan of the Dagger system but that's just my opinion.

I saw that and thought it quit innovative plus I can get most of the parts here. That is definitely an option.

Thanks again,

ed

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Any comments on converting a Wave Sport Z to C1

Any comments on converting a Wave Sport Z to C1

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Thanks to all for your replys. They are a great help.

Re: Wave Sport Z