My $.02 on why more people don't paddle OC-1 & C-1

[Walsh]

Instruction is hard to find and is expensive. Finding someone to meet on the river who will help you is kind of difficult to. This group can be very helfull in that regard.

I think this is key! In the DC area, kayak camps, schools and instructors are a dime a dozen, and will take you from an intro and rolling to specialized playboating or creeking classes.

If you want to learn whitewater canoeing, you have maybe three opportunities a year, through club volunteers, or private instructors coming to town, and no rental equipment is available.

I don't see how anyone could get into c-boating in a practical manner unless through a friend or spouse who's already involved.

[jnorto01]

I beg to differ on the cost issue. If you are comparing new vs new I'll admit it closes the gap a bit but not quite. Consider this, a last years model kayak goes for about $400 in great condition (great for getting C-1 conversion candidates cheap), but try finding a used OC-1. They still fetch around $600-800 and you will probably have to totally re-do the outfitting and that is if you can even find one in decent condition. Most of us run our boats into the ground before we are willing to part with them. When I first got the bug to become an OC-1 paddler I took a lesson ($expensive but worth it$) before I even owned a boat, then spent the rest of the summer saving up while looking for a used boat. I eventually saved up enough dough and placed an order with Mohawk for a brand new Shaman before finding a used boat that was worth getting.

Paddle Cost?? One of the above post had paddle cost listed at $30-130. I would REALLY like to know where you can get a good paddle for $130. Try around $230 for a nice Galasport or Mitchel and even more for a hand built custom stick. Werners work OK for $155 but are way over priced and wear out too fast.

I have a bunch of kayak buddies who are always moaning about their virtually ready-to-go outfitting not fitting right, working etc. and having no clue how to fix it. Ya need Skillzzz to build up a c-conversion from scratch. I recently helped out a lady in my local paddling club put together the outfitting in her new kayak cause she just didn't know were to start. She baked me a delicious home made apple pie as a thank you . Most people just are not able to design and build a conversion and probably would not even be able to install an off the self conversion kit if it were readily available.

Tom, As for pumps, I stick my Zoom into holes were my kayak buddies are way to sceered to go. Pumps rock! They just take some of the work out of paddling OC-1 and make it even more fun.
Although a pump is NOT a substitute for knowing how and having the skill to execute a dry line.

Like most things in life you get out what you put in. C boatin' is harder, takes longer to learn and is more expensive. I feel the reward for knowing I can meet the challange is worth it. My Mom used to say "Just becuause everyone else is doing it, does THAT mean your going to do it ??" (hands on her hips with an indignant look). This definitely applies to kayaking.

[Jim P]

One thing I have heard from yakkers interested in C boating -

"I never knew you could paddle whitewater in a canoe until I had been yaking for a year or two".

In fact I've had people stop me at putins and question me as to what I was doing.

"Are you going to paddle that?"
"Have you ever done this before?"

Obviously conerned that I was headed for trouble since they had never seen a canoe on that stretch of river b4.

I expect its mostly folks who have only beeen boating a year or two and have not been around much, but then again, ask yourself this question - How many days have you been the only single bladed boater you saw on the river?

And Marshal wonders why people cheer when he rolls

[ezwater]

On the Nantahala, there are a lot of open boat paddlers, but most aren't really doing anything.... just cruising along, hitting eddies here or there, maybe getting in line at Surfers. (Most of the kayakers in little short playboats are doing the same thing, basically not much.)

I come down working the hades out of the river in my 15' MR Synergy, sometimes succeeding at surfing waves I've done with my Zealot, and occasionally I get compliments from kayakers. Or, they wonder why I've crashed into line in a small eddy to wait my turn at a wave.

So, even when open boaters are around, they aren't necessarily setting any kind of example.

[LEW]

How do you say:
"If it were easy it would be called kayaking"
In French?

LEW

[amollohan99]

Several things:
I loved it when I first started sticking all 17 ft. of my OT into the MD chute on the potomac. The yakers either gave me a look of awe or disgust, I don't know which it was.

2. There are a bunch of OCers in DC area. DB on this post and some others are ACA guys and do lessons privately and through CKAPCO and other companies.

3. My first time side surfing was one of the coolest feelings of my life.

4. I love that last saying. "...they'd call it kayaking...ooohhh"

5. yaking is much easier. I just started and I can go so many more places and do many more things in just this season. I will say I would be much more behind were it not for the years of ocing.

[sbroam]

T orespond to and echo some sentiments above -

1. cost - yeah, *new* or really really old are the only times the gap is close. Ks depreciate so fast because there are so many and they keep cranking out new designs every couple of weeks. Good point. Most boaters won't start out with new - I sure didn't.

2. perceptions - I think I did my local yakers a disservice by putting the OC-1 on the shelf for a couple of years. I came out one day a couple of years back with an open boat and got quizzical stares just putting in. Then when I actually surfed a wave/hole they said they had never seen an open boat do that (they're sheltered apparently) and when I made attainments that their little milk jugs (tribute to Scott W) just couldn't make, they just shrugged and looped their way downstream chalking it up to more eccentric single bladed behavior from that guy who performs (corrective) surgery on kayaks. A few of us locals are trying to set them straight.

[HIPPOSTAN]

I myself am very lucky to have a very generous friend who is genuinely excited about teaching me and watching my progression in C1, without his help I would still be floundering around on flat water.
I don't have to pay him and he doesn't ask much of me, except to listen, which I do intently.
I also first paddled in an OC2 when I was young and then paddled K1 and now obviously paddle C1.
I personally think that for the majority of people if they cannot get instant satisfaction at a reasonably high level, it then becomes all to hard and I think that is why there are so many K1 paddlers.
I like the fact that there are not as many C-boaters, because when you need help they all come out of the woods with the same enthusiasm as you, as when they started C-boating.

GOOD THINGS TAKE TIME, GREAT THINGS (c-boating) TAKE A LIFE TIME!

cheers and safe paddleing
Hippostan

[jroneil]

I go with the NH AMC lots of time we have 18 boats on the water maybe 12 OC1 3-4 OC2 and the rest will be kayaks. Most of the water is class II some III but lot of the harder stuff is remote an may require hiking you boat. the age is 45+ up with many people retired I started my son OC2 this year he likes it but the people are old so that turns him off I was able to outfit 3 oc2 and 1 oc1 for less than a 1200 bucks that include buying the 3 of the boats
I made my own DRings for about a buck a piece also you do not need the saddle and straps if you are doing class 2 and 3 for the oc2
I did a OT tripper and 2 disc 169 mohawk xl I got the dagger/voyager center bags for 25 buck from boulder outdoor center this sping they had new for 45 they wer closing there b&M store. There is a guy on ebay where I got end bags for 25 each and the long ones for 35 each for the solo. the tripper was 450 disc 169 125 all rigged for white water xl13 with bag 350

So you need to know how to scrounge and maybe do some driving the 169 was a 4 hour drive away