River etiquette question / survey

jscottl67 · Post by **jscottl67** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:41 pm

you were there Scott...honestly...I just slightly bumped him...right??

jscottl67 · Post by **jscottl67** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:49 pm

sbroam wrote:This is not a new problem and I will once again make my modest proposal.

I think your proposal has some merit. I have a Toughbook, cellular card (GPS enabled, links to G-maps, internet acccess) and a Pelican case that we could use for testing purposes.

The sensors would be our technical issue, as cold water, and or actually staying dry in a dry suit would create confusing input on the temperature/prespiration rates. I think some type of sphyncter tightness gauge may be in order, but may prove ineffective with butt boaters

sdbrassfield · Post by **sdbrassfield** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:57 pm

I woulda surfed "OVER" him

Post by **sbroam** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:09 pm

John Coraor wrote: ...
Often when I line up in my long boat (a slalom C-1) near the eddyline well below the trough in order to get some momentum and a shallow exit angle onto the wave, some butt boater in a playboat starts to pull out ahead of me, not realizing that I'm trying to engage from that position. Despite lacking the bulk of an OC-1, I usually manage to convince them of the error of their ways and get them to back off.

John

I don't really like to wait in line most of the time and will find something else to do, some other feature to play or some other problem to work on. And in a long boat, you do have other options... I remember one time on the Potomac paddling with Dave Miller - he in a slalom boat and I in a "milk jug". My trip up from Angler's was grueling, his easy; I was relegated to jostling in line with a bakers dozen of butt boaters waiting for my 5 seconds of froth, while he paddled up to a nice big glassy wave I couldn't even get to that he and two others were sharing . I rather regretted my boat selection...

But... every so often I make it up to a popular river on a busy weekend and find myself in queue with a bunch of paddlers with varying skills and manners. It takes a great deal effort to not become frustrated by the constant stream of upstream boats and not just move on. I have to have quite a motive to stick around - either it is a great wave, I have one of my kids and I'm doing it for them, or the company is great. In the words of Frank Costanza, "Serenity now!!!"

squeakyknee · Post by **squeakyknee** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:28 pm

msims wrote: but they generally recognize that they have more play time than an OC will ever have. ...

I disagree. there are plenty of features out there that I will stay in as long or longer in my open boat than the yaker even if it just ends up being the "eternal" sidesurf...

c1swim · Post by **c1swim** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:29 am

Jimmy Dale!!

Mike W. · Post by **Mike W.** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:03 am

OC's can just get close & scare the butt boaters.

Squirt boats are fun in a line-up too

One busy day at Weldon a yaker kept bumping my Acrobat. Now an occasional accidental bump doesn't bother me too much, but if you keep ramming my 'glass I get a little irritated. This guy just kept hitting me in the eddy. Finally he said "your boat is too long to be here". I replied, "no, it's just the right size" as a pivot turn bringing that pointy bow just a few inches from the butt boater's face cured the bumping problem. Nobody got hurt & there were no more problems

John Coraor · Post by **John Coraor** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:03 pm

Mike W. wrote:OC's can just get close & scare the butt boaters.

Squirt boats are fun in a line-up too One busy day at Weldon a yaker kept bumping my Acrobat. Now an occasional accidental bump doesn't bother me too much, but if you keep ramming my 'glass I get a little irritated. This guy just kept hitting me in the eddy. Finally he said "your boat is too long to be here". I replied, "no, it's just the right size" as a pivot turn bringing that pointy bow just a few inches from the butt boater's face cured the bumping problem. Nobody got hurt & there were no more problems

That's what I call "justifiable aggressiveness!"

It's been quite a few years, but I still get nostalgic when I recall the reaction my wife and I would get when we cruised rivers and played in our Torrent XL slalom C-2. It was a 1983-84 design (just before they required blunted ends in 1986) and had a wicked stilletto bow. Not too many boaters were willing to share a hole with us and eddylines would miraculously clear whenever headed for one. We knew we weren't going to piton anyone, but they didn't. . . . Ahhhhh, those were the days!

John

msims · Post by **msims** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:11 pm

squeakyknee wrote:
msims wrote: but they generally recognize that they have more play time than an OC will ever have. ...
I disagree. there are plenty of features out there that I will stay in as long or longer in my open boat than the yaker even if it just ends up being the "eternal" sidesurf...

Showoff.

Open Gate · Post by **Open Gate** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:43 pm

Here on the Ottawa, traffic is almost always a problem.(except for now in dry suite weather)

1 st - Due to their poor manoeuvrability, Rafts have the right of way no matter what

When they come down, get out of the water and take a break. That's it for rafts!

2nd - Yakers : I've used option C a few times in my bigger boats. Even though very efficient in cleaning the wave

You'll end up in a bitching session in the eddy a few minutes later. Not fun ! Opposite to what I'm loking for when paddling. Not running the yaker over will help in the eddy later on. If they don't have any courtesy, don't sink as low as them and have minimal respect. Take your place on the wave but don't hurt any one !

Small play boats(my CU Fly) are not as effective in washing the wave...but their again alot easier to hog the wave and give back to the yakers a little bit of their potion

I write this and visualize Baby face on the Ottawa...and if too busy I either continue without stopping, or drop in horse shoe(where most yakers won't go) and spend some quality time dodging the rafts

Don't get mad...we have too much fun on the water for this !

billcanoes · Post by **billcanoes** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:14 pm

when there is a long line- my understanding is that no one should stay on for more than 40sec to a min- and you should yield to downstream paddlers, and basically I think boaters who try to catch the wave on the run are rude people but they are still coming from downstream and I yield-

of course everyone should handle the situation as its right for them

Post by **sbroam** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:26 pm

In general I do not have a problem with a boater catching a feature on the fly. I think that is a different challenge and one that should be allowed the upstream boater and it can be done politely - wait in an eddy upstream, communicate intentions (eye contact, hand signal, verbal), and then not hog the feature. What bugs me is the clumsy attempt with no warning that bumps you off and to the back of the line.

KNeal · Post by **KNeal** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:45 pm

So, Scott. If I read your proposal correctly, you want PEOPLE to resolve conflicts with river etiquette?

The vision : Boaters to be equipped with waterproof helmet-mounted computers linked to centralized etiquette servers via a worldwide wireless network to resolve river traffic conflicts.

I think I'll just go with "C" as well. Very nicely contrived concept, though.

I really do like your proposed additional etiquette enforcements concept:

electrical shocks administered to boaters refusing to yield the right of way.

Very nice

KNeal

Larry Horne · Post by **Larry Horne** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:39 am

i don't see anything wrong with catching a wave on the fly or "dropping in"...... if it's kept short. i do it (try it) all the time.

and most of my surfs are so short i don't have to worry about any traffic coming downstream.

cbcboat · Post by **cbcboat** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:05 pm

In Monata, due to the lack of Cboaters it seems as though the K boaters want to see the Cboats get in there and do something. Whether they are just hoping for carnage or something cool. I like it when my C buddies get thrashed, it looks cooler in a long boat. Though at the new play wave in town some of the yakkers will gripe about long boats in the eddy- they are the boaters that don't actually run rivers anyway, faget abot it. I usually just get in line and go when its my turn.
B