Maybe by chunking that muscle and power mode ... and using a little style and grace.Glenn MacGrady wrote:... I have no idea how you guys can accelerate to high speeds and hold lines in the stubby flat bottomed open boats I see on the market today.
Right-handed paddler needs help going left
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Larry Horne
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eubie-
I found your question to be very interesting, along with all the answers to your post. Over the past year, as I began paddling bigger water, I also found I was experiencing the same problem. For me, however, it was a rock I was trying to avoid, not a hole. If I went to the right, my onside, no problem. If I tried to go left to avoid the rock, and both bow and current wanted to go right, what to do? I found a quick compound back stroke to move the stern left, and then another quick forward stroke, or sweep, would usually do the trick(both strokes onside). I am, however, doing this in Class II water, nowhere near as big and pushy as what I saw in Wendy's picture. I'm still working my way up to that kind of water, but my guess is that what you do depends on how quickly you can see, assess, and have the time to do what you need to do. Being familiar with that rapid, or following someone who is, would obviously be a big help. There were some interesting concepts in the answers given. I'll have to take some of these ideas out on the water and give them a try.
I found your question to be very interesting, along with all the answers to your post. Over the past year, as I began paddling bigger water, I also found I was experiencing the same problem. For me, however, it was a rock I was trying to avoid, not a hole. If I went to the right, my onside, no problem. If I tried to go left to avoid the rock, and both bow and current wanted to go right, what to do? I found a quick compound back stroke to move the stern left, and then another quick forward stroke, or sweep, would usually do the trick(both strokes onside). I am, however, doing this in Class II water, nowhere near as big and pushy as what I saw in Wendy's picture. I'm still working my way up to that kind of water, but my guess is that what you do depends on how quickly you can see, assess, and have the time to do what you need to do. Being familiar with that rapid, or following someone who is, would obviously be a big help. There were some interesting concepts in the answers given. I'll have to take some of these ideas out on the water and give them a try.
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yarnellboat
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Vin,
Your strokes confused me - reverse stokes (to move your stern to the left) followed by sweep strokes (which would move your stern to the right), cancel each out other out, and I don't see how that would accomplish moving your boat across the river...
You're wagging your tail and floating downstream! To continue paddling downstream (i.e., other than doing a ferry, which is another fine option) and move across the river, in either direction, you need to be able apply power and hold a line.
As discussed, there are few options involving efficient correction, offside power, boat tilt, etc., but somehow you need to find some efficient forward speed/direction.
Swapping out reverse strokes and forward strokes as you described sounds like a bad habit if you want to get anywhere.
If you're not already using offside power strokes in this situation (needing to paddle forward/downstream and angling your line towards your offside), I recommend practicing combos of onside and offside power, the offside strokes providing the correction to keep a line, but maintaining your forward momentum.
Try it on flatwater - paddle hard and straight without using any stern correction.
PY.
Your strokes confused me - reverse stokes (to move your stern to the left) followed by sweep strokes (which would move your stern to the right), cancel each out other out, and I don't see how that would accomplish moving your boat across the river...
You're wagging your tail and floating downstream! To continue paddling downstream (i.e., other than doing a ferry, which is another fine option) and move across the river, in either direction, you need to be able apply power and hold a line.
As discussed, there are few options involving efficient correction, offside power, boat tilt, etc., but somehow you need to find some efficient forward speed/direction.
Swapping out reverse strokes and forward strokes as you described sounds like a bad habit if you want to get anywhere.
If you're not already using offside power strokes in this situation (needing to paddle forward/downstream and angling your line towards your offside), I recommend practicing combos of onside and offside power, the offside strokes providing the correction to keep a line, but maintaining your forward momentum.
Try it on flatwater - paddle hard and straight without using any stern correction.
PY.
I guess what I mean to say is my back stroke acts as a backferry(with the stern pointed left) moving the boat left and away from the object in question. Then a quick forward stroke moves me clear. I'm also working on my off side sideslip. Like I said, this seems to work fine for me in class II water. Will this not work in bigger water, and am I developing a bad habit?
After reading the posts, the offside power stroke while leaning down stream seems to be my next move. My buddy is always telling me to "trust your lean".
I tend to trust my onside brace too much, I suspect. Need more speed to move boat where I want it, not where the water wants it.
Vin, sometimes we focus on what we want to avoid rather than where we need to go, often hitting the obstacle.
I tend to trust my onside brace too much, I suspect. Need more speed to move boat where I want it, not where the water wants it.
Vin, sometimes we focus on what we want to avoid rather than where we need to go, often hitting the obstacle.
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yarnellboat
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Vin,
I guess it's a case of how far you need to move - if you can avoid an obstacle by moving your stern with a reverse stroke, and then sweeping your bow by with a forward, I think you just didn't need to move your boat very far!
Generally, while running a river, I'd say it doesn't make much sense to use strokes like this back-to-back, which effectively cancel each other out, at least not to move laterally across a current.
A back ferry is one good option that was discussed, but I'm not sure a 1-stroke back paddle to move your stern counts as a "back ferry". Also, if your heading left and pointed left going downstream, it costs some time & effort to now point your point your bow right for that back stroke. But, depending on the strength of the current and where you're pointed and what you're doing at the time you decide to move left, a back ferry may be a reasonable choice.
In the situation eubie described, I think he wanted to be able to take several strokes of downstream power and get moving some distance across to his left.
And to rely on a back ferry, there are the same needs - you've got to be able hold your angle and sustain sufficient power, which is difficult. In pushier water, you're not going to get much out of a 1-stroke back ferry (other than spun around so you can resort to a front ferry!). But sustaining a controlled back ferry is another good thing to work on.
PY.
p.s. I'm not an instructor and I probaly don't paddle any better than you, eubie or anybody else, so... grain of salt.
I guess it's a case of how far you need to move - if you can avoid an obstacle by moving your stern with a reverse stroke, and then sweeping your bow by with a forward, I think you just didn't need to move your boat very far!
Generally, while running a river, I'd say it doesn't make much sense to use strokes like this back-to-back, which effectively cancel each other out, at least not to move laterally across a current.
A back ferry is one good option that was discussed, but I'm not sure a 1-stroke back paddle to move your stern counts as a "back ferry". Also, if your heading left and pointed left going downstream, it costs some time & effort to now point your point your bow right for that back stroke. But, depending on the strength of the current and where you're pointed and what you're doing at the time you decide to move left, a back ferry may be a reasonable choice.
In the situation eubie described, I think he wanted to be able to take several strokes of downstream power and get moving some distance across to his left.
And to rely on a back ferry, there are the same needs - you've got to be able hold your angle and sustain sufficient power, which is difficult. In pushier water, you're not going to get much out of a 1-stroke back ferry (other than spun around so you can resort to a front ferry!). But sustaining a controlled back ferry is another good thing to work on.
PY.
p.s. I'm not an instructor and I probaly don't paddle any better than you, eubie or anybody else, so... grain of salt.
It's my understanding that there are two ways to control the direction of your boat - going faster than the current or going slower than the current. The compound backstroke I mentioned slows my hullspeed, allowing me to then correct my direction with a forward stroke. But I'm paddling this Sunday, and am taking the concept of an offside forward stroke with a downstream lean out on the water to try it out. I love this stuff!
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yarnellboat
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Vin, I stand to be corrected here, but the speed of the boat doesn't really affect whether or not you can pivot your canoe around. On the open river (as oppose to surfing/playing with your nose stuck somewhere), your sweeps, reverse sweeps, draws, pries, etc. will always turn your boat, slower, faster or coasting (keeping in mind that current speed/differential will influence which strokes you choose - it's easier to use the stroke that will move an end of the boat with the current, rather than trying to force an end upstream - but nevermind, unrelated, whole new thread perhaps!).
The purpose of going slower than the current is so that you can execute a ferry (a perfectly good option for moving laterally in these situations), where the current passing the hull will do the work of moving you sideways, while you apply power against the flow.
I think the only steering-type purpose of slowing your boat is to ferry - I don't think the speed of your boat relative to the current affects your ability to change the boat's direction.
PY.
The purpose of going slower than the current is so that you can execute a ferry (a perfectly good option for moving laterally in these situations), where the current passing the hull will do the work of moving you sideways, while you apply power against the flow.
I think the only steering-type purpose of slowing your boat is to ferry - I don't think the speed of your boat relative to the current affects your ability to change the boat's direction.
PY.