Suggestion for a New OC1

[dcoc1]

I'm on the market for a new OC1. I've been paddling a Mohawk Shaman for the past 3 years or so, and would like my next boat to be shorter, lighter, and somewhat more responsive.

I mostly paddle stuff like the Lower Yough and Cheat Canyon, but have aspirations to paddle some bigger and/or more technical water as my skills progress (let a guy dream...). I'd say I'm more of a river runner than someone who spends a ton of time playing.

My thoughts at this point include the Esquif Zephyr (concerned about cracking) or Spark (seems kind of fragile), or perhaps a Viper 11 (the hard chines would definitely take some getting used to).

I've briefly paddled both the Zephyr and Spark, but only on flatwater.

Any suggestions? Thoughts (even random ones) would be much appreciated.

[Bill M]

There are a lot of options, I would suggest paddling as many of them as you can. I paddle an Outrage and love it as an all around boat, it has plenty of rocker,ferrys and surfs well etc. Others feel the same about their current boats as well.
Bill

[bald1]

Being primarily a butt boater I always thought that I would top out in my OC-1 at say the Noli or the Ocoee. And that was fine i would just transition to my butt when I paddled rivers past that difficulty.

Then I got my Taureau. Now I have an open boat that is almost the same size as say my creeking kayak but still has all of the elements that I love about open boating. Plus it is plastic and can take a beating.

Now everytime I paddle this boat my goal of where I can see my open boating going is getting higher and higher. Now that I have my roll about down, the Taureau and I are gonna go places.

I realize it looks funny and isn't really very traditional , but then again neither is royalex, float bags, or bilge pumps.

I figure that a Taureau was not on your radar, but you owe it to yourself to try one out.

when you do try it give yourself two runs so you can get used to the vast size difference and how it will handle.

My first try of this boat left me swimming and beaten down but I saw the potential and I wanted more.

Now my Rodeo is collecting dust, I'm sure I will use it again, but for now the Taureau is just too dam alluring.

just my .02

-Bryan

[jakke]

Now you are lucky, I've paddled all 3 of them, and own one: the viper 11 .

Let me first say I'm not a really really skilled paddler. I've just moved from surviving to starting to play in class III rivers.

Ok, some things about the boats:
I have the viper11 and I love it. Short, responsive, and great primary stability, paddles well when full. I haven't had any problems with the hard chines, I think the paradigm is harder to get used to. But if you're afraid of the hard chines, think of the probe11. The viper is a fast boat, accellerates well, but due to his shape, is not good at boofing. It is kind of wet in wavetrains and drops, though I've learned a lot depends on how you paddle!

next one: spark:
A really nice one. Verry responsive, lots of rocker, dry boat, fast fast fast. But, tippy, less primary stability then the vipers, and secondary is also, weird. This boat is narrower at the gunnel then it is at the water line, it does not 'push back' when carving or tilting, you have to get used to it. And yes, in the beginning you have to have a good brace . You definetly have to paddle it less aggressivly then boats with hard chines.
Though also fragile, nice wooden gunwale, fragile thin twarts and royalite. Not a boat to be in the hands of a not so skilled boater in a rock-garden.

Zephir: lovely boat! Though also tippy. The first time I only got my knee in, then I tipped over . Fast boat, dry boat, responsive. and chines are somewhere in between. Also surfs great btw. Haven't tried this one on class III water, but if I see one on the river, I'll be the first one to ask if I can paddle it for a while. Wouldn't want to have one myself because of the twintex. I don't like the material, even though it's light. I've experienced and read a lot about cracks. They seem to be easy to repair, but still I don't like the idea.

The boat I'm looking forward to to try is the prelude, "new" in the esquif family. That's a butt-boat material boat, so it can use some abuse. It's even shorter. No boat to paddle flat water with, and you have to keep it tilted all the time (as far as I read). I hope it's somewhere in between the viper and the zephir, but even more responsive.

Another boat to consider in this area is the occoee (or how do you spell it?). I think it hsould be drier, and has a bit softer chines then the viper. But I haven't tried it myself.

I should mention I haven't tried all boats at the same skill level. Viper and spark yes, but the zephir I wasn't even surviving class III, but already loved that boat!

Happy choosing! Other people can surely tell you something more about these boats!

J.

[sbroam]

I own a Zephyr and love it - light, responsive, etc (see previous posts). However, I tried an Ocoee recently for, for all intents and purposes, the first time and was really surprised. I loved it - a little more initial stability than the Zeph, very snappy eddy turns/peel outs, surfed nice, etc. Definitely more edge than the Zeph, but don't let that rule it out for you. I had an uplanned roll when I wasn't as strapped in as I would have been if i planned it, so maybe it rolls easier, too? I'm certainly not selling my Zephyr, but I'm a new Ocoee fan.

[Jim P]

I went from a Shaman into an Ocoee. I found the transition pretty easy. Since then I have owned a Detonator (too slow), Zoom (too small for my fat arse), and Zephyr. Still have the Zephyr but the Ocoee is still my favorite.

I disagree about the edgyness of the Ocoee vs. the Viper. The Ocoee is more edgy than the Viper. It carries its edges through most of the hull length where the viper only carries it in the center and the front and rear are rounded - Probe like. Makes for different handling...


Zephyr and Zoom are very much alike - same basic hull design, fast to accelerate, very dry, responsive. less initial stability than anything short of a Prelude. Zephyr is just a tamer version of the zoom due to increased length and width.

Spark - I only played with on flatwater but it is fast, very responsive, and will respond quite well to offside tilts, just like a hard chined boat. I'm a bit big for it. Its probably the most like the Shaman in design characteristics than the other boats.

Forget the Probe - you already have a better boat.

[milkman]

I'd add the Evergreen Solito to the list, particularly if you want a short boat (it's 9'11") with hard chines. Its chines are even harder than the Ocoee. In fact, the boat is very much like a shortened Ocoee. Very snappy performance when it comes to carving into and out of eddies. Good acceleration for a short boat. Excellent little surf machine. If you buy one though, bring in the gunwales at the center about 1 to 1-1/2". It makes it perform much better.

I agree also with what people have said here about the Ocoee. Excellent design, still very current. Out here in the Northwest, it's one of the most popular canoes for serious whitewater paddlers.

[riverratrsf]

I paddled a Shaman for a couple years and liked it. I paddle a Viper-11 now and like it better. Another canoe you may want to try is the Prodigy. I tried a Prodigy X out and liked it as good as a Shaman and if it had been a foot shorter like the regular Prodigy would have liked it better. Having said all that when I wear my Viper-11 out will probably look at the Zephyr real hard.
Scott

[Mikey B]

I paddled a Shaman and then got a Taureau. It was quite the switch going from a bigger boat to a little one, but now I can't imagine ever going back to a bigger boat Way too much fun!
I'd really look at the Spanishfly too.
I think you'd like the Ocoee or Zephyr if you only wanted to drop to an eleven footer...but give the short plastic boats a try.
MB

[AJ]

Solito - John Graye designed that boat as a shortened Ocoee (sharp edges) with blunter ends (drier). AS I understand it, he had an Ocoee at one time that he cut in half and removed part of the middle section. This was the boat before his the fiberglass Rock Hopper. He then sold the design to Evergreen, which became the Solito in Royalex.

Out here in Colorado, we sure miss our buddy John. We are hoping to do a John Graye Memorial run down Slaughter House on the Roaring Fork this summer, date still to be determined. It just snowed another 3' feet on the top of Aspen mountain last weekend.

Ocoee - I like it for bigger or pushier water. I also like it for smaller water, but don't like beating up the fragile Royalex. so......

Taureau - Just got this boat this year with the skirt coaming for creeker type runs. It is great to be dry, warm and riding on a 7.75" saddle, except for when I miss a roll, which can happen to me . This boat seems slow compared to the Ocoee, harder to roll, but it is hard plastic that has taken a beating so far, feels light, very manuverable, feels short for tight stuff, and is very fun to paddle, while not have to mess with dumping water.

[insolence]

I'm not a true open boater (don't own one), but I have paddled several OC1's.

The Spark was the most amazing of all! This is the one I would buy if I had the money ;), it might be fragile, but the performance in speed and reaction is outstanding! Almost as responsive as a C1, in my eyes.

I didn't have a "tippy" feeling in it, but I'm quite small, so this might be different for a bigger paddler. Anyway, that's my recommendation!

[dcoc1]

Thanks for the suggestions! I definitely appreciate it.

[knu2xs]

If you like the Viper, I would recommend the Ocoee. It is the boat Frankie wanted to build when the Viper was made. The only difference is carrying the chines out the bow and the stern instead of softening them like they are on the Viper. I owned and completely destroyed both. Frankie was a wizard, and is missed.

The Spark is the first open boat I have paddled since the Ocoee I was impressed with. If I was going to get an open boat right now, this would be it.